Last Ditch Attempt to sell those MY15-17's!

[Matrix2020]

It seems the cheaper cars are now fitting flappy paddles to everything as it's a novelty for some, while the more prestigious makes like Porsche are recognising that their customers want the option of more interaction and are bored of computers becoming more overbearing, taking the fun out of driving. Of course companies like Audi won't change as they are bought by those who like easy (boring) driving with some novelty knobs for their drivers to fiddle with.

Cheaper??? Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Pagani, Koenigsegg, Mclaren........ None offer a stick shift, Mclaren never have....

“Brett Boydell, Bentley’s head of interior design. He said Bentley customers haven’t even inquired about a stick shift option for decades. “The thinking from a powertrain perspective is that for quite some time Bentley has been focused on performance and luxury. Luxury is being able to keep ahold of the steering wheel, to stay in control. Drivers are better able to do that with an automatic transmission.”

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[Enoch]

Ahhh the annual Auto v Manual discussion....

 

[benanderson89]

The auto/manual debate is always a "fun" one (read: aggravating beyond all natural belief).

It depends on the car, and it depends on the person driving. Its that simple. That's all there is to it.

 

[Gibbo205]

Ahhh the annual Auto v Manual discussion....

I get the people who want a manual, because well they want a manual. But what people don't get is that out in the real world a automatic is faster at everything and consistent, it does not miss gears.

People talking 0-60, the automatic does not stop being faster at 60, the auto car will also accelerate from 60-160mph faster too. On a roll it will go faster, automatics also put the power down better as well because the torque converter helps in that respect.

I've driven the M6 and A6 extensively, also driven a highly modified M6 and of course a GT 350.

In the GT 350 the manual makes sense, its a proper drivers car and designed for track work where you truly want involvement and also its far superior manual than the one found in the GT, however for me if Ford through the DCT 7 speed from the Ford GT in it, OH MY GOD! All the M6 cars I've driven something is just a miss, why can I get in a Mondeo and change gears like a hero, buttery sweet, yet the M6's are quite agricultural in their operation, the gating is nice, but the whole clutch side does not like being over rushed, yes you can fit short shifters and bang the gears and it will change, but in a daily driver it is kind of unpleasant. Some will admit this, others will deny till their blue in the face, but Ford did a poor job on the manual in 15-17, seems they vastly improved it in the 18.

If someone said to me right were giving you an MY17 Mustang and said you can't have an 18 it has to be a 17, do you want an M6 or an A6. I tell you now the decision would be tough as to me they are both a touch annoying, but in a daily driven car I'd take the A6.

Myself and Enoch raced, did track days in our cars and every quarter mile race we did I simply was not even close in the 1/8th, by the 1/4 I'd gained some ground, but that was nothing to do with A6 vs M6, that was simply because I was pushing a bit more power and had a higher redline to rev out too.

Also I am not the best driver, I am average and on a track day, particular a track that say just needs more than 3-4th gear, give me paddles every time, both hands on the wheel, less to concentrate on as I find getting my lines, steering angle, apex, getting in power and keeping it on the black stuff more than engaging enough. The only time I might want a manual on track would be for drifting, its easier in a manual, you have more control or lack of self induced control.

What I don't like about the A6 is paddle response, is the A6 slow or bad, no really its actually pretty damn good but if you've driven a proper sports PDK (911 GT / Cayman GTS) then you will know how super responsive they are on paddles, quite a different league. BMW's DCT is also very good on paddles as well, of course they are not full automatics, being twin clutch setups and of course DSG is super rapid but a little lifeless as the changes are seamless.

Out of the proper automatics I've driven, A6, ZF8, GM 8SP, Lexus 10SP (I think lexus is an auto) the A6 was the slowest on paddles. Then the GM 8SP (found in 2017 Camaro) was only marginally quicker than A6 on paddles and if you hit an upshift on the limiter just like the A6 it would then sit there what felt like forever buzzing said limiter after you pulled the paddle. ZF8's are a hard one, in BMW's again they seem a little lacking response but are very smart and work well. I've no idea what JLR done to ZF8 but its like PDK now super responsive on the paddles and gives you the gears when you want them as long as your not being a moron. The Lexus 10SP is also really cool, very quick again and it does epic downshift blips (LC500) just like a BMW M car with DCT.

My issue also with the A6 was even in track mode, the only mode acceptable for me to drive in on paddles was track, sport, manual mode with traction partially off that downshifts only revved match so the blips was shall we say a sedate one, which compared to a BMW M car pales in comparison as they do totally insane touring car style blips when the gear box is in the faster velocity modes as BMW let you fine tune the gear box independent, pretty genius really by BMW and of course S6 being the most aggressive and violent on both up changes (kick in the back) and downshift blips.

The Lexus 10SP LC500 also blipped real nice. The ZF8 in the Jaguar seems a bit more in line with the A10, it blips but its more a rev match than an all out blip.

If my only memory of an automatic was the automatic I used in a Toyota Supra or Mitsubishi EVO X then the A6 would make me very happy. The people who know me here know I do love the performance and response side of things and having experienced BMW's latest DCT, Porsche sport PDK, Jag's ZF8 they are just more responsive.

What Ford have got absolutely spot on in the A10 however is they have used those 10 gears to truly make the car a lot faster than its manual counterpart in all areas of acceleration as instead of just giving the car loads of overdrive gears for economy, by going 10SP they have like 7 gears to play with for acceleration, resulting in shorter ratio's to keep the car properly in the power band and where peak power is longer than a manual car could ever hope for. Whereas for instance in my Jag, they used the extra two gears purely as economy overdrives, 5th is 170mph, 6th 212mph, 7th 280mph and 8th 325mph. I'd have far rather they had shortened 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th a bit with performance more in mind, maybe a downside of only having 8 VS 10, but Ford done an amazing job on the A10 to extract even more performance, so much so the Camaro guys are slitting their wrist.

That is why M6 18's are crossing the line around 115mph best and the A10's are in the 120mph, another 5mph is a big deal and the fact it crossed the line half a second sooner too.

The 18 manual has even longer gearing now, stick two 18's side by side, an M6 and an A10 in manual mode, both cars in optimum gear at 30mph to get on it and do a pull to 100mph, the A10 will just pull away due to shorter gearing right from the get go and the M6 will never make ground on it.

However a car is not a drivers car because it has three pedals VS two, that is total BS, stirring a stick or pulling paddles does not make or break a car, what it is, well owner preference, some people prefer paddles, some prefer sticks and well some prefer just selecting D and doing fuck all.

For me I want an automatic for two reasons, yes performance, yes in the real world they are a lot quicker, they kick down far quicker and smoother than anyone can with a manual and in a daily driver they are just easier to live with.

Anyway gone on far too long, people should just buy what they want but realise that are both are right and both suit the car just fine.

 

[Artill]

I am too old school, it has to be a manual for me. If there were no manual Mustang i wouldnt be driving one. Until i am forced to drive an EV with no gearbox at all i will stick to a manual. Doesnt mean people who want an auto are wrong. Its personal choice. I applaud Ford for letting us choose

 

[Charlie Brown]

I believe UK sales have been about 50/50 manual & auto and it’s just a personal choice as the GT is no less a muscle car with the auto.

 

[benanderson89]

I believe UK sales have been about 50/50 manual & auto and it’s just a personal choice as the GT is no less a muscle car with the auto.

According to DVLA statistics its closer to 61% manual IIRC.

 

[Charlie Brown]

According to DVLA statistics its closer to 61% manual IIRC.

So 39% made the right choice lol

 

[benanderson89]

So 39% made the right choice lol

Oh stop already.

 

[Kristian87]

Found this online and couldn’t resist :lol:

https://instagram.com/p/BgHYvADAxKK/

Seriously though, we’re arguing over personal prefere here, same as the EB vs GT debates. Gunna add my 2 pence anyway, for me - i’d love to drive an auto mustang, i think it would be great fun, arguably more fun in some ways than the manual, obviously quicker too. Would I buy one? No. As someone else has quite rightly put, i like the engagement of the manual, its what i’m used to and it’s what i like. Auto is just “different” to me, as i’m sure it is to many, even the ones that say their preference is “better”.

 

[Toecutter]

Found this online and couldn’t resist :lol:

https://instagram.com/p/BgHYvADAxKK/

Seriously though, we’re arguing over personal prefere here, same as the EB vs GT debates. Gunna add my 2 pence anyway, for me - i’d love to drive an auto mustang, i think it would be great fun, arguably more fun in some ways than the manual, obviously quicker too. Would I buy one? No. As someone else has quite rightly put, i like the engagement of the manual, its what i’m used to and it’s what i like. Auto is just “different” to me, as i’m sure it is to many, even the ones that say their preference is “better”.

The only preference that matters is your own.


Now, who has picked up one of those 0% deals since we started clogging up this thread with auto V manual bullshit?

 

[ian2144]

The only preference that matters is your own.


Now, who has picked up one of those 0% deals since we started clogging up this thread with auto V manual bullshit?

Me,me,,me........18 Plate Grabber blue with black roof, hope to have by the beginning of April......I’m glad to wait as we still have a heap of snow here, the joys of living in rural Aberdeenshire :doh:

 

[Toecutter]

Me,me,,me........18 Plate Grabber blue with black roof, hope to have by the beginning of April......I’m glad to wait as we still have a heap of snow here, the joys of living in rural Aberdeenshire :doh:

Nice one.

Will no doubt see you at one of the Scottish meets.

 

[downthepub]

Nice one.

Will no doubt see you at one of the Scottish meets.

All these blue Mustangs. Want to see yours when it arrives Jarrod, you've been at this Mustang lark for a wee while now!

 

[Toecutter]

All these blue Mustangs. Want to see yours when it arrives Jarrod, you've been at this Mustang lark for a wee while now!

Far too long Miles. My initial order was October 2016.

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