Kuga PHEV

[Gregs24]

OK so I know this is a Mustang forum but ...

I've just tested (and ordered) a Kuga PHEV. Very impressed by the driving experience which is seamless. Compared to the 190PS diesel it is significantly quicker and quieter. Feels well built and comfortable with a good ride / handling balance on the 19" wheels and ST Line X sport suspension.

Electric only is perfect for around town and even in normal mode with a charged battery it stays in battery only around town. Engine joins in seamlessly and provides a pseudo gear shift even though it is a CVT. Little of the normal CVT elastic band type feeling with the engine revving. Genuinely really impressed by the performance (for the type of car it is) and how the various control systems worked. Two levels of regenerative braking available but both levels were easy to moderate.

The car had only done 500 miles and had averaged 75mpg over it's life so far. As long as it is charged, it renders diesels pointless for short to medium mileage drivers.

We have solar panels so will charge the car during the day pretty much for free (the panels paid for themselves years ago and out tariff is unaffected by use from the panels) 35 mile electric range seems entirely possible. We used 12 miles of electric range on a 19 mile trip and the engine wasn't on very much.

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[Bullitt66]

PHEV seems the logical way to go

Too many issues with charging infrastructure and especially a lack of hi po fast chargers to make pure EV a practical proposition for most people

But I guess a Stang forum will not find much love for anything electric... Clearly emissions are not a critical buying factor for us,,,

 

[marks]

Only problem with PHEV is that you're essentially carrying around two power units, ICE and battery. So extra weight and potentially more to go wrong. But it's a good compromise to going full electric.
Having said that Im considering a hybrid or PHEV for next car but Kuga is too small for me, shame we didn't get the Explorer here. Although im liking the revised designs of the upcoming (end of year) Kia Sorrento and Hyundai Santa Fe which are coming in hybrid and PHEV options.

Worth checking the warranty Ford have on the battery for PHEV, i would expect 8 years. Also as a battery loses it's charge capacity as it ages/charges, what percentage charge retention is acceptable before it's considered defective ie if only holds 70% charge after 3 years is this acceptable.

 

[Gregs24]

Only problem with PHEV is that you're essentially carrying around two power units, ICE and battery. So extra weight and potentially more to go wrong. But it's a good compromise to going full electric.
Having said that Im considering a hybrid or PHEV for next car but Kuga is too small for me, shame we didn't get the Explorer here. Although im liking the revised designs of the upcoming (end of year) Kia Sorrento and Hyundai Santa Fe which are coming in hybrid and PHEV options.

Worth checking the warranty Ford have on the battery for PHEV, i would expect 8 years. Also as a battery loses it's charge capacity as it ages/charges, what percentage charge retention is acceptable before it's considered defective ie if only holds 70% charge after 3 years is this acceptable.

Yes, but the battery pack is relatively small, the C2 platform 150kg lighter and the engine is all aluminium and lighter than the old diesel lump. In all only around 150kg more than the previous Kuga we have. Battery does have an 8 year warranty and early EV's are showing very little battery degradation over time. Even 5 year old cars are only dropping by 10 to 15% in the UK where the weather is cooler.

https://insideevs.com/news/429087/best-worst-ev-battery-degradation/

Ford reliability is very good these days

Kuga is MUCH bigger inside than the old one. It is only 9cm longer and 4cm wider than the previous model but rear legroom is HUGE and boot space is a massive increase on the old one. That was one of the most noticeable differences in the back of the car.

 

[marks]

Yes, but the battery pack is relatively small, the C2 platform 150kg lighter and the engine is all aluminium and lighter than the old diesel lump. In all only around 150kg more than the previous Kuga we have. Battery does have an 8 year warranty and early EV's are showing very little battery degradation over time. Even 5 year old cars are only dropping by 10 to 15% in the UK where the weather is cooler.

https://insideevs.com/news/429087/best-worst-ev-battery-degradation/

Ford reliability is very good these days

Kuga is MUCH bigger inside than the old one. It is only 9cm longer and 4cm wider than the previous model but rear legroom is HUGE and boot space is a massive increase on the old one. That was one of the most noticeable differences in the back of the car.

Yes but I'd still want something in the warranty to cover battery degradation.

For comparison the length of the new Kuga is 4,626 and width of 1,882 (similar to BMW X3 size) where new Sorento is 4,810 x 1900mm wide (similar to X5 size). So getting more space, 7 seats and longer warranty with Kia.

Also the new Ford Kuga looks a bit soppy, where the new Sorrento/Santa Fe have a sharper look imo. Also the Kuga only has circa 150hp which could be a bit undeprowered, where Sorento PHEV will be 260hp.

The main advanatge of the Ford is it's about £10k cheaper.

 

[Gregs24]

Yes but I'd still want something in the warranty to cover battery degradation.

For comparison the length of the new Kuga is 4,626 and width of 1,882 (similar to BMW X3 size) where new Sorento is 4,810 x 1900mm wide (similar to X5 size). So getting more space, 7 seats and longer warranty with Kia.

Also the new Ford Kuga looks a bit soppy, where the new Sorrento/Santa Fe have a sharper look imo. Also the Kuga only has circa 150hp which could be a bit undeprowered, where Sorento PHEV will be 260hp.

The main advanatge of the Ford is it's about £10k cheaper.

Kuga PHEV is 225PS - plenty of power

Looks are obviously a personal thing but it look better in the flesh than in pictures

Warranty is what it is - 8 years. Nobody will provide warranty for normal degradation with time. It is normal wear and tear as with any warranty.

 

[marks]

225PS, what's that like 220 bhp. Fair enough that's not bad.

Yes, you won't be covered for normal degradation but should be covered for abnormal battery degradation as part of warranty.

Kia's warranty says:

This warranty covers repairs needed to return the battery capacity to at least 70% of the original battery capacity.

 

[Gregs24]

225PS, what's that like 220 bhp. Fair enough that's not bad.

Yes, you won't be covered for normal degradation but should be covered for abnormal battery degradation as part of warranty.

Kia's warranty says:

This warranty covers repairs needed to return the battery capacity to at least 70% of the original battery capacity.

It is 109PS electric motor and 115PS ICE not sure where the sneaky PS come from to make it 225PS in total ! Yes about 221bhp.

Torque though is huge. The electric motor produces around 200 Nm and the ICE almost the same, and obviously the electric motor torque is from zero rpm. It feels very brisk off the line. ICE only revs to 5k rpm but there is no rev counter anyway, just a power provision / regeneration display. 2.5 normally aspirated Atkinson cycle (actually modified Otto cycle being pedantic) which is hugely efficient but not very powerful. Does about 45mpg on ICE alone but only 115PS at that point.

70% capacity will be 10 years or more of use at least, but then they know that or they wouldn't give the warranty. Nobody warranties anything they know will fall short unless they are stupid.

 

[marks]

It is 109PS electric motor and 115PS ICE not sure where the sneaky PS come from to make it 225PS in total ! Yes about 221bhp.

Torque though is huge. The electric motor produces around 200 Nm and the ICE almost the same, and obviously the electric motor torque is from zero rpm. It feels very brisk off the line. ICE only revs to 5k rpm but there is no rev counter anyway, just a power provision / regeneration display. 2.5 normally aspirated Atkinson cycle (actually modified Otto cycle being pedantic) which is hugely efficient but not very powerful. Does about 45mpg on ICE alone but only 115PS at that point.

70% capacity will be 10 years or more of use at least, but then they know that or they wouldn't give the warranty. Nobody warranties anything they know will fall short unless they are stupid.

Yes max torque on electric is instant, not tried one out yet but be interesting to see how it feels.

I agree on average 70% will be 10 years + but I still would want it defined in the warranty in case i get a dud battery that loses charge quicker than normal.

 

[Tin O' Spam]

Do not charge your Kuga.

I got word there was reported to be a problem when I got to work this morning. Ford have now put out a statement.

 

[marks]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/...kuga-phev-deliveries-halted-due-battery-fires

Ford have probably used some cheap battery component system

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