Hooker vs BBK Shorty header discussion

[fordguys550]

MAC also has headers, and are equal length, but the kink in the middle tube is like WTF

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[DR_]

Hooker really should offer a ceramic coated version. That would tip the scales towards them in my eyes.

 

[fordguys550]

To this day I have not completely understood and they never said anything. It is a rod bearing that was spun and destroyed in the engine.

I think the car was taken on harsh tests without being heated up or something, I think it was a loose head gasket that sludged the engine and all the other shit.

It started knocking, within 3-4 days it became undrivable.

I think my case was unique, overall i think this engine is very dependable. from day 1 I suspected the engine being a little off, it would almost shut down on redlights and a lingering problem with the intake manifold.

I like he bbk beter because each pipe extends to a certain degree so they meet at same place with enough independent pipe of their own in each clynder. I think if you are spending that much, it is worth to get something ceramic sprayed so it pushes heat better.

man, that freakin sucks. my motor feels pretty strong and is pretty quiet mechanically. I always let it warm up before I beat on it lol. I was told to break it in pretty hard, so I have lol. its only got 2700 miles on it, and I changed the oil at 1,000 and it was really clean. I plan to change after I hit 4,000 and then space It out the normal 4k-5k (synthetic) im glad they gave you a whole new motor though, and didn't give you much grief about the mods

 

[icarumba]

Hooker really should offer a ceramic coated version. That would tip the scales towards them in my eyes.

I'll ask JT if they are going to offer that; they already offer ceramic on other headers, so who knows?

 

[icarumba]

Well BBK comes stainless steel, you can pay 100 extra and get ceramic coated. You can go drive the car for 20 mins and go ouch them.

My 2 cents is that if you are doing a header upgrade get the one that gives you the most. Both will be just as difficult to install honestly they dont differ too much.

BBK being ceramic does it for me. Unless something else comes out before spring when I plan to install em.

Hooker really should offer a ceramic coated version. That would tip the scales towards them in my eyes.

JT just responded:

"The price difference is that we use premium 304 stainless steel material that will not corrode to the elements. Even though ceramic coating is nice, once the coat wears off or if it's scratched during install, it will corrode. We do not have to coat ours as they will not corrode, plus, it would be a sin to coat 304 stainless steel.

Another plus is we do not have to remove some of the header studs off the motor to install, nor is it a pain to get to the bolts when torqueing down."

Makes sense to me!!

EDIT:

I just went to the BBK website and looked up their product, and nowhere do they mention stainless steel. They mention "mandrel bent tubing". And they don't offer a "raw" version. Think about that. As in with most things, you get what you pay for.

 

[Metaflame]

JT just responded:

"The price difference is that we use premium 304 stainless steel material that will not corrode to the elements. Even though ceramic coating is nice, once the coat wears off or if it's scratched during install, it will corrode. We do not have to coat ours as they will not corrode, plus, it would be a sin to coat 304 stainless steel.

Another plus is we do not have to remove some of the header studs off the motor to install, nor is it a pain to get to the bolts when torqueing down."

Makes sense to me!!

EDIT:

I just went to the BBK website and looked up their product, and nowhere do they mention stainless steel. They mention "mandrel bent tubing". And they don't offer a "raw" version. Think about that. As in with most things, you get what you pay for.

Well obviously they got you tied down saying whatever they say. Honestly after 15 minutes of staring at both, it is obvious BBK's design is so much better. There is nothing I found about the ceramic coming off in any BBK ceramic application. This is all speculation. The OEM headers rust in a few months. I was wrong to say BBK offers stainless steel, it is actually chrome for 309.99, very corrosion resistant and then there is the ceramic for 409.99.

There is a BIG reason why ceramic in headers is good. Either way it will stay durable. If you dont wanna do ceramic why pay double the cost to have headers made out of kitchen steel grade when you can get chrome, better design headers.

Hookers are made in a way that the exhaust gasses will be fighting each other where the 3 pipes meet whereas in the BBK the closes one is looped and they create a more direct route where they connect.

I am sure it is good stuff but dont make it seem like the BBKs are thrash. And no offense really that I have been involved in online marketing on many levels so long, I never take the word of someone like yourself. It is no different than company telling me why to buy.

 

[six_shooter]

The BBK headers are good, no doubt there. To me it is just a question of ease of install and material. As you pointed out, the BBK are steel. The ceramic will probably last for many years, but the chrome will pit and rust relatively quickly. And since they're shorty headers, I doubt there is much difference in performance between the two. I would go with the one that is perhaps easier to install with "unlimited" service life. Just MHO.

 

[icarumba]

Well obviously they got you tied down saying whatever they say. Honestly after 15 minutes of staring at both, it is obvious BBK's design is so much better. There is nothing I found about the ceramic coming off in any BBK ceramic application. This is all speculation. The OEM headers rust in a few months. I was wrong to say BBK offers stainless steel, it is actually chrome for 309.99, very corrosion resistant and then there is the ceramic for 409.99.

There is a BIG reason why ceramic in headers is good. Either way it will stay durable. If you dont wanna do ceramic why pay double the cost to have headers made out of kitchen steel grade when you can get chrome, better design headers.

Hookers are made in a way that the exhaust gasses will be fighting each other where the 3 pipes meet whereas in the BBK the closes one is looped and they create a more direct route where they connect.

I am sure it is good stuff but dont make it seem like the BBKs are thrash. And no offense really that I have been involved in online marketing on many levels so long, I never take the word of someone like yourself. It is no different than company telling me why to buy.

Please understand that I’m not bashing BBK, I’m sure they make fine products. JT never said anything bad about them either. I only went to their website out of curiosity to see what grade of stainless steel they were using. I didn’t state that they were not using stainless, I was only pointing out that they didn’t mention stainless. And I never said that not using stainless was bad. My intent was to provide information to the other people reading this thread; not to call you out for something you posted. As for the statement about “you get what you pay for”…that doesn’t necessarily imply that the lower priced item is bad. Is a Camry a bad car because it is less expensive than a Lexus? Nope…it just doesn’t have all the same stuff (you get what you pay for). Leather seats cost more than cloth seats (you get what you pay for). Stainless steel costs more than carbon steel (you get what you pay for). If what I said gave the impression that that I thought the BBK units were junk, then I should have worded it differently…my bad.

I’m not qualified to evaluate which is the better design; I’m not a mechanical engineer, nor have I road tested the BBKs. And as far as you not trusting the word of some random guy on the internet (me)…that is very wise, my friend!

BTW, Holley never asked me to post anything on this forum in exchange for free stuff, I just was so impressed with them that I wanted to share my experience. In my opinion, they are a fantastic company that deserves to sell a lot of product.

It is actually good that you prefer the BBKs; this thread is all about comparing the two, so we need to have advocates on both sides to have a good discussion!! :cheers:

 

[davekro]

Shameless theft from the icarumba's thread!

I thought this 30 min. Magnaflow exhaust tutorial Youtube video posted by vnzbd on icarumba's Holley thread was excellent (big thanks vnzbd!!).

[ame]

On the Hooker's, I really like the ease of install and the 304 SS, I just wish it was not as much more in price than the BBK's (that's just my cheapie showing ;) ). They may be a very good deal over the long haul. I am certainly not an exhaust engineer either. I have no idea if BBK's design w/ rear port lengthen would increase overall flow or not. Obviously there are trade offs with such limited space with either design. After watching the MF video, I notice that BBK's front two ports combine first, then that tube meets the looong back port's tube at the collector. Interesting.

One very good thing about Holley/ Hooker is that they have posted some and plan to post more Dyno charts for various combinations of systems on the V6. When I was researching BBK headers 6-8 months ago BBK showed no interest in posting dyno results.

I sure hope if Holley has not already dyno'ed icarumba's V6 with 'just' the headers and ALL else OEM, I hope they will take the time to do so (before installing his AB) AND share it. It would be great to know what if any net incremental HP and torque gains are made from the headers alone.

I just added two more BBK photo's in post #1 of this thread for a better visual of them. (Thanks Russian!... I stole them from his build thread. ;) )

 

[MustangDominance]

How much did you pay for the header installation?

 

[icarumba]

How much did you pay for the header installation?

Who are you asking?

 

[MustangDominance]

Who are you asking?

You or anyone else that had it installed by a shop.

 

[icarumba]

They used my car for the product development, so I got to keep the headers. My cost was very high though...being without my car for a month. Hopefully you can get a better deal on your install! lol :-)

 

[davekro]

MAC also has headers, and are equal length, but the kink in the middle tube is like WTF

Fordguy, Can you post a link to Mac headers for the V6 S550? I could not find it on the Mac or American Muscle sites. Thanks

I don't see how it is possible in the limited space and very 'shorty' distance to the collector to get all three tubes even close to similar length. BBK changed the (3rd) very shortest tube to by far the very longest tube. I have no idea how each port's particular firing timing affects how each port's pulses interact at the collector.

icarumba, yours being a development car, will they give a choice of some of the cool decals they have on their development GT? :cheers:
(A retorical question as you are not likely going for the Nascar look on your cool Ruby Red convertible! :lol

 

[icarumba]

...or maybe a hat....

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