GT350 vs. Z/28

[traxiii]

It will be a very sad day for all of MotorSports if chevy is allowed to use a 6.2 liter supercharged motor against a 5.2 N/A Ford V-8! This had better not happen!

I kind of think it's funny how far behind GM is in performance engine design.:lol::cheers::clap2:

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[mustangletback]

I kind of think it's funny how far behind GM is in performance engine design.:lol::cheers::clap2:

well thats what you can expect from a Garbage Motor Company thats a Gigantic Mistake.:lol::cheers::lol:

 

[Erik427]

Behind yes, but nothing a few Pro GM rule Concessions wont fix as usual.

 

[thePill]

531hp, 419tq, 3570lbs. Any more power without direct injection and I will be very impressed. Anything lighter than 3570lbs would mean they either a.) Discovered a few more lbs. in the rating process or b.) The GT350TP didn't weigh as much as I projected which is 3700lbs. The more equipment model levels and equipment options make it difficult to project these weights. There is no information on any of the special equipment being used on the 350... and the GT350 is littered with it.

All in all, the GT350 will have nearly a 300lbs weight advantage on the z28. It will also have an HP advantage as well. Hard to beat a car that is more car than you. It will also have more tire too although, the Pirelli's are about as "Race" as they come. Although the Michies' are very close as far as bubblegum goes.

We probably won't hear a Ring time. The GT350's tested there were heavily armored and no sense in advertising that. Quite frankly, cage design was likely being looked at as well. Nothing puts torsional forces on a structure like Nurburgring...and a drivetrain to push you to a 7:30 consistently.

MSRP is still a mystery. I would love to see them stretch for a base $49,995 to start. Could be a reason options are astronomical. I gawked at the notion of paying $5000+ for a Track Pack. Now rumors suggest it could be $7500. Although some of those prices are questionable. The "R" was down for a $3000 dollar increase. By itself it's all wrong. When forced to select the TP, the cost is roughly $10,000 from base to R. I can believe that at a minimum.

I'm hoping for a $49,350, $54,350 and a $65,350. We might end up getting a $52,995, $59,995 and a $69,995. I am hoping for the best.

If Professional Motorsport Organizations feel the need to flex the rules for the Camaro, fine. Don't come cryin' asking why some of these classes are disappearing or organizations have disappeared altogether. It's a sad affair. Would an equal playing field help Road Racing? Probably not...

At first I wasn't laughing at the whole ordeal. I just stopped watching Grand Am in 2012 and following the SCCA shortly after. I stopped watching because I knew better... I'd say 99.9999% of the Camaro5/6 population had no idea either. They still wouldn't know the extent of the Camaro crutches installed at nearly every class level just to aid the 5th Gen. Not a single one of you... I am quite pleased that my efforts went semi-viral. I'm at least happy that this is becoming common knowledge. What a shock it was to find out he Camaro needed a reduced wheelbase to be competitive in GTS. When you are right, you are right.

So don't talk about "Road Racing" or "Competition" because these simple concepts have escaped the Camaro, both 5th and 6th Gens. I see them patching together a defense, even down to the laughable upper grill slot it got for cooling. A Flo tie is needed they say!!! No, a functional upper grill is needed... and thePill's the bad guy for pointing it out. They closed off the upper grill to reduce lift at high speeds. How often are owners going to be traveling 120+mph? How much does the engine need cooled? What about low speed cooling or cooling in traffic? That is pretty important stuff.

What about the weight? The 6th Gen may be just as heavy as the z28 with 50 less horsepower and far less tire. The only advantage the 6th Gen is bringing to the fight is a mid-size sedans geometry. Far better than a full size sedans geometry right? At least it's in the right direction. The next Gen Camaro may actually focus on this key area. At this point, I'd settle for a Camaro that actually looked like a sports coupe and not built off a sedan... For $40,000 you'd better come with some specific equipment.

 

[Erik427]

It's still a big mystery on how much power the 5.2 will make. Wonder when we will find out all the info? HP/TQ? New Engine or a very well done rehash of the Coyote? Engine weight?

 

[thePill]

It's still a big mystery on how much power the 5.2 will make. Wonder when we will find out all the info? HP/TQ? New Engine or a very well done rehash of the Coyote? Engine weight?

A handful suggest it came out stronger than they expected. Like almost 550 and 450tq. Another handful suggest Ford beat the M4's 3549lbs US Curb Weight with the R. I have also heard a sub-$50,000 target was suppose to be one of the "had to be" targets as well as the M4's weight and old GT3's Power to Weight. Initially, a GT350 could have made 100hp per liter at 3550lbs and been very near to the PtW ratio target.

I think it ended up being stronger BUT, the picked up 20-30lbs. That 20 or 30lbs could have been Carbon Ceramic Brakes that didn't make it. The MSRP keeps being rumored to be great but, I remember how the z28 was. Waaaay overpriced.

There is also a handful of people that say the R is 3600lbs even at 520hp starting at $55,995. That could also be true...

 

[thePill]

Awwwww... Did anyone hear that?

BMR weighed a Non-PP GT manual and said it was about the same as a 2014 Base GT auto with 16 gallons of fuel... About 3675lbs.

The guy that weighed his 2015 at 3593lbs now has his car at 3575 with ease.

The Canadian guy that just ran a 12.55@116 with new wheels said his was around 3680lbs too. I see a trend...

Wait until you hear about a 3710-3720lbs GTPP's!!! I think that's crazy if it ever hits the web.

 

[Erik427]

Awwwww... Did anyone hear that?

BMR weighed a Non-PP GT manual and said it was about the same as a 2014 Base GT auto with 16 gallons of fuel... About 3675lbs.

The guy that weighed his 2015 at 3593lbs now has his car at 3575 with ease.

The Canadian guy that just ran a 12.55@116 with new wheels said his was around 3680lbs too. I see a trend...

Wait until you hear about a 3710-3720lbs GTPP's!!! I think that's crazy if it ever hits the web.

You have a link or something for me to refer to? Would be nice for some good news.

 

[thePill]

You have a link or something for me to refer to? Would be nice for some good news.

Just chatter between the owners...

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22073

One of the owners are French Canadian, his English is so-so.

Edit: He also claims his 2011 Brembo GT was a little bit lighter than his 2015. Hmmmmmm... That was my crazy observation too...

I must be lying through my teeth and somehow convinced this guy his situation was the same... /rant

Wait... Terry discovered the same thing with his 2011 Brembo GT and a customers '15 GT. We must all be crazy liars!!!

 

[thePill]

Those new discoveries don't change my initial prediction though. If any of you remember, I was basing my 20/20 spread off a 3680 Curb Weight anyway. The locals have seen enough 3660-3700lbs cars to make them comfortable with the fact. It doesn't seem to be isolated cases. In fact, 3675 seems to be the average...

Remove the air pump (5lbs), Floor mats (5lbs), Washer fluid (9lbs max) and trunk and engine bay stuff (10lbs combined)... Add Recaro's? What is that? 5? 10? 15lbs a piece?

The Boss 302 Recaro's were 44lbs while the standard driver seat was 56lbs. It was 11lbs per seat if I remember correctly. The new Mustangs seats are lighter overall (52lbs I think) but add in a standard passenger side electric motor. The weight gain/loss was a wash. I think it's safe to say the Recaro's are similar to the Boss 302's 44lbs, it would be 8lbs per seat. I'm betting they are probably lighter than the Boss 302's overall. Just based on mass and construction alone... Maybe 42lbs. I will just go with 5lbs per seat, it's very reasonable.

There is 30-50lbs sitting in those real world weights.

Once you start removing the airbag systems and radio, we are talking over 100lbs... There is a ton of airbag weight in the S550. Last Gen the airbags were 30-40lbs total, I think the steering wheel is weighed in that figure too. The S550 took on double the airbags as well as the larger knee airbags... which literally allows us to walk away from 40mph crashes... I heard total airbag weight increased over two times the previous weight. 70lbs? 90??? Plus 30lbs of 6 speaker stereo equipment...

60-90lbs in airbag
30lbs in sound
30-40lbs in stuff not bolted down.

Minimum, there is 120lbs of FREE weight reduction.
60-90lbs of that is for OFF ROAD USE ONLY
60-70lbs is realistic.

Minus 50-70lbs for gasoline...

170-190lbs coming off a 3660-3700lbs vehicle?

That's before you spend a single dime... You are as light as a C7 Z51...


Edit: Sorry for the early morning auto-corrects.

 

[thePill]

More MSRP considerations while we wait for info...

Chef BoyRDeez is using the C7 as a reason WHY it won't be a $2000 increase.

Let's look at the Corvette Gen changeover and what happened to the MSRP.

The 2013 Corvette's MSRP was $49,600 and I believe that is without Destination Fees. Not bad actually... (Checking for destination, if included)

The 2014 pricing was released in April 2013 and was $51,995 w/ destination. I believe the Destination Fee was included in the $49,600 on the 2013. That is a $2400 dollar increase.

Same 2014 Corvette during an extended model year, got another MSRP increase before the 2015 was released. In March 2014, the Corvette went from $51,995 to $53,995. Another $2000 on top of the $2400 ($4400 dollar increase.

In July 2014, the 2015 Corvettes pricing was released and BAM!!! The Z51 gets a $1000 increase to $58,000. This was ON TOP of the $1200 price increase the package got at the end of MY14. It's a $4000 option now.

Then, RIGHT BEFORE THE MODEL YEAR CHANGEOVER!!! In February 2014, ALL Coupes get an MSRP increase of an additional $1000 to $55,995.

In the span of 22 months, the Corvette's MSRP increase from $49,600 to $55,995...

That is a $6400 MSRP increase at the Base level. The Z51 increased by nearly $8000.

So, the "only $2000" dollar argument is a bad one considering Chevy has increase that number since then. This is with almost zero changes too... Just paying for the z06.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

More MSRP considerations while we wait for info...

Chef BoyRDeez is using the C7 ask a reason WHY it won't be a $2000 increase.

Let's look at the Corvette Gen changeover and what happened to the MSRP.

The 2013 Corvette's MSRP was $49,600 and I believe that is without Destination Fees. Not bad actually...

(Continued, grabbing some numbers)

That guy is a complete and utter ass clown.

 

[thePill]

That guy is a complete and utter ass clown.

Have you ever sat down an analyzed the C7's constant MSRP increase? 22 months, $6400 dollar MSRP increase and a $2200 dollar increase to the Z51.

Like the weight, keep it low and reward the first buyers... Then recoup your mistake later on.

 

[Agarc]

Have you ever sat down an analyzed the C7's constant MSRP increase? 22 months, $6400 dollar MSRP increase and a $2200 dollar increase to the Z51.

Like the weight, keep it low and reward the first buyers... Then recoup your mistake later on.

back in 2014 i was looking at a lt1 z51 and it came out to 54-55 and my buddy bought one at that point and then this year my brother wanted one and we went to look at the same lt1 z51 but 2015 suddenly was 60+ i was like sweet mother of

 

[Big reg]

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