GT350 vs. Z/28

[CarFan]

You know what? I think you are Chefborozzy that used to post here and still posts over at Camaro5/6. That account was banned a while ago from this site.

Odd that 2 people from Iowa that love GM would come here and only discuss things in these GM threads....very interesting...maybe I am wrong.

Love GM? So, you're saying I'm posting on both forums, yet you're doing that exact thing and it's apparent that you love Ford. Chef must have left a big impression on here. Looks like getting banned isn't hard to accomplish and hope that doesn't happen to me for having a discussion. What's funny is that I also own a mustang, but better to not put it in here as the S197 is getting a lot of hate here. Lol.

I just think that stating a Camaro will weigh as much as it does now on a full size chassis is insane and I would like to have a back and forth discussion on it in a civil matter. Immediately called a GM fanboy because I don't agree with someone as biased as Pill? Not right.

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[Todd15Fastback]

Love GM? So, you're saying I'm posting on both forums, yet you're doing that exact thing and it's apparent that you love Ford. Chef must have left a big impression on here. Looks like getting banned isn't hard to accomplish and hope that doesn't happen to me for having a discussion. What's funny is that I also own a mustang, but better to not put it in here as the S197 is getting a lot of hate here. Lol.

I just think that stating a Camaro will weigh as much as it does now on a full size chassis is insane and I would like to have a back and forth discussion on it in a civil matter. Immediately called a GM fanboy because I don't agree with someone as biased as Pill? Not right.

I don't posted on those forums, sorry to disappoint you. I can browse the today only posts and nothing more. It is quite entertaining....

It is just funny that a new forum member (joined today as a matter of fact) such as yourself only comments in this thread or the other Camaro thread with all 13 of your posts ON A 6TH MUSTANG FORUM. Why not debate on the Camaro forum???

 

[CarFan]

I don't posted on those forums, sorry to disappoint you. I can browse the today only posts and nothing more. It is quite entertaining....

It is just funny that a new forum member (joined today as a matter of fact) such as yourself only comments in this thread or the other Camaro thread with all 13 of your posts ON A 6TH MUSTANG FORUM. Why not debate on the Camaro forum???

Because it's no fun. Few people in there are bat shit crazy and think it'll weigh 3,500 in v8 trim, most are normal and think it'll weigh 3,700-3,750.

I just think Pill can't give a good assessment due to his hate for Gm. Plain and simple. I also like to call our information that's posted when it's not correct. Both cars will be solid, but obviously fanboys from both sides will be fanboys.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

Because it's no fun. Few people in there are bat shit crazy and think it'll weigh 3,500 in v8 trim, most are normal and think it'll weigh 3,700-3,750.

I just think Pill can't give a good assessment due to his hate for Gm. Plain and simple. I also like to call our information that's posted when it's not correct. Both cars will be solid, but obviously fanboys from both sides will be fanboys.

:cheers:

 

[thePill]

The Camaro is getting a wider track but still maintaining weight? That will be difficult.

I assume the Camaro would have gained a few pounds evolving from an ATS Coupe. It would be a neat trick if they don't gain weight but increase in width. At a minimum, the fenders will need to compensate for the track increase. The Mustang had a decent track increase to move to a more optimal WB:T ratio. It is actually a wider footprint than the C7 Stingray and that is a good thing.

Right now, the 2010-'14 SS has a better stance than the ATS Coupe. At a minimum, the ATS-V's puny track will move to all Camaro's. It's still a puny f@ggot track but it's better than the coupe/sedan.

The only way to compensate for a short track once it's set is wheel and tire baby. Just take the overall gain to eliminate rotational mass on Hi-Po models once tire is needed.

...and Chevy never said anything about the Corvette in particular. They just talked about the 99lbs weight loss and nothing else. They never openly admitted the gain until the official release in April. And, as you can see from those forums, fans were led to believe (as we were) that a lost was achieved.

You do realize Team Camaro isn't even near curb weights yet right? Like August/Sept after output. This is a general blanket statement. Those have always came back to bite Al...

Given the past, it wouldn't surprise me if this "200lbs" is another projection or simulation.

 

[CarFan]

The Camaro is getting a wider track but still maintaining weight? That will be difficult.

I assume the Camaro would have gained a few pounds evolving from an ATS Coupe. It would be a neat trick if they don't gain weight but increase in width. At a minimum, the fenders will need to compensate for the track increase. The Mustang had a decent track increase to move to a more optimal WB:T ratio. It is actually a wider footprint than the C7 Stingray and that is a good thing.

Right now, the 2010-'14 SS has a better stance than the ATS Coupe. At a minimum, the ATS-V's puny track will move to all Camaro's. It's still a puny f@ggot track but it's better than the coupe/sedan.

The only way to compensate for a short track once it's set is wheel and tire baby. Just take the overall gain to eliminate rotational mass on Hi-Po models once tire is needed.

...and Chevy never said anything about the Corvette in particular. They just talked about the 99lbs weight loss and nothing else. They never openly admitted the gain until the official release in April. And, as you can see from those forums, fans were led to believe (as we were) that a lost was achieved.

You do realize Team Camaro isn't even near curb weights yet right? Like August/Sept after output. This is a general blanket statement. Those have always came back to bite Al...

Given the past, it wouldn't surprise me if this "200lbs" is another projection or simulation.

"puny ***got track".. Guess you hear something new every day. Again,
many people posted that the 99 pound loss wasn't curb weight, but chassis. That's exactly what GM said it was. Of course, you like to rag on them for some reason even though what you're saying is not true.

http://jalopnik.com/5975819/heres-why-the-2014-corvette-stingray-be-better-than-the-c6

Have a good day, sir.

 

[Sasuketr]

I have a new debate lets assume a fully loaded next gen ss camaro weighting about 3900 lbs and take the 3815 lbs loaded mustang gt from the magazine articles, who would come out on top? We have 450 hp with 460 lbft on one side and 435 hp with 400 lbft on the other side! The Camaro also have a better weight distribution! Its not rocket science! Now i m really upset about the gt gaining weight and still love the car and drive it as my DD but i should have waited for the real specs to come out before purchasing, however i will be trading in the car most likely for a gt350 or a next gen 1le. The GT is still an amazing car but will be way behind the competition with the current specs! :cheers:

 

[CarFan]

GT350 is an amazing looking car and is the one I'd want from the Mustang lineup.. It'll be good bang for buck, but still a nice penny.

 

[traxiii]

Hey Pill, Not to change the subject from this wonderful and constant "yes it will, not it won't" conversation, but if you are familiar with FIA GT-3, I was wondering if you thought a properly prepared GT-350RACE model might be able to run? I know that the IMSA GT-Daytona class is allowing GT-3 spec cars to race next year, what do you think? I can't find the actual specs for GT-3 but there's a camaro and a Ford GT racing now.

 

[thePill]

Typically, FIA GT3 Mustangs were no where near OEM. It remains to be seen if the S550 can enter those classes (GT in IMSA, GT3 in FIA) with minimal intrusion.

The new car was built for this but, they would need an engine healthy enough to compete. Another mission for the Voodoo perhaps...

 

[thePill]

"puny ***got track".. Guess you hear something new every day. Again,
many people posted that the 99 pound loss wasn't curb weight, but chassis. That's exactly what GM said it was. Of course, you like to rag on them for some reason even though what you're saying is not true.

http://jalopnik.com/5975819/heres-why-the-2014-corvette-stingray-be-better-than-the-c6

Have a good day, sir.

It is a puny track for the wheelbase it sits on. The M3/M4 moved to a longer WB and shorter track for MPG's. No big deal for the Caddy, it's just not what the Camaro needs..

If the Camaro gets wider (as it should), it won't be as light as the ATS Coupe. The Camaro needs to support a Vert, it will gain weight there too.

If the ATS-V is already 3700lbs, it will be hard to undercut that especially if it grows.

...and this won't be a Performance Pack Camaro either. The GTPP and Z51 are only 200lbs apart. What you are asking for will be difficult to do.

When Chevy released the -99lbs statement, it was carried for 3 months before Chevy confirmed the 90lbs weight gain. Only 1 or 2 sources speculated that it would eventually gain.

Note, the time Chevy said that the C7 was Show Ready. The Camaro isn't even close. About the only real numbers they do have at this point would be initial platform losses because curb is months away.

Until tooling is final, weight figures shouldn't be discussed at all. It came back to bite both Ford and Chevy before.

 

[CarFan]

What say you about the ZL1 weighing 97 pounds less than the CTS-V coupe while having a wider track and being on a bit fatter platform? Having bigger and wider wheels and tires as well.

Looks to me like pretty much all GM cars are dropping weight.

Track will get wider for Camaro. I'm not sure what you keep on going on about with the Vette. Chevy specifically stated they pulled 99 pounds from the chassis.. Not overall from the curb weight.

I think this day and age to think a manufacturer doesn't know about how much their car will weigh 7 months before it hits lots is ridiculous.

Either way, we'll find out soon enough. Some will prefer Mustang, some will prefer Camaro. I personally don't think you can go wrong with either.

 

[CarFan]

GT PP and Z51 Vette are not 200 pounds apart. Try 300, if not more. Again, look at curb weights.

Base Vette to base GT is a 400+ pound difference.

 

[thePill]

GT PP and Z51 Vette are not 200 pounds apart. Try 300, if not more. Again, look at curb weights.

Base Vette to base GT is a 400+ pound difference.

Gotcha...

This still doesn't fix the looming possibility that the Camaro will be larger and heavier than the ATS at every level.

A Z51 type package will be needed. I highly doubt it will be 200lbs lighter than the 2015 SS.

If the Camaro stays exactly the same, there is a possibility it could be the same as the ATS-V. With what we are seeing now, it will be difficult to reach 3700 at all. Be thankful if it comes below 3800lbs. The ATS-V had some pretty extensive lightweighting if I remember correctly. Probably not going to be found on the Camaro until the MSRP reaches 50-$60,000.

It was a very poor decision moving to a 109.3 WB and not going down to a 106-107. We wouldn't be discussing weight if they did. It will be a very, very poor decision if the track isn't increased to compensate.

What say you about the ZL1 weighing 97 pounds less than the CTS-V coupe while having a wider track and being on a bit fatter platform? Having bigger and wider wheels and tires as well.

Looks to me like pretty much all GM cars are dropping weight.

Track will get wider for Camaro. I'm not sure what you keep on going on about with the Vette. Chevy specifically stated they pulled 99 pounds from the chassis.. Not overall from the curb weight.

I think this day and age to think a manufacturer doesn't know about how much their car will weigh 7 months before it hits lots is ridiculous.

Either way, we'll find out soon enough. Some will prefer Mustang, some will prefer Camaro. I personally don't think you can go wrong with either.

The CTS supported a sedan, coupe and wagon. The ZL!'s weight loss was all structural . As of right now, the 6gth Gen Camaro was based on an ATS that only supported a sedan and coupe. The ATS doesn't have any of the convertible reinforcements nor any Hi-Po reinforcements until the ATS-V. again, you guys fall for this... The new CTS lost a shit load of weight right? that is right... However, as of now, it doesn't support a Coupe, Wagon or Convertible. The weight loss came with a price and that is chassis flexibility.

I think you guys are about to get a taste of what the Mustang and Corvette fans did.

GM is dropping weight because they had some of the heaviest, useless platforms on Earth. Ford makes a 3500lbs Fusion on a 112 inch wheelbase. Sedan only, it doesn't share... yet the Mustang was forced to take on a lot of weight from the torsion table to the press release.

I am sure the Camaro will try and use expensive lightweight materials... but if the price doesn't stay below $40,000, I could care less what it weighs.

Ford could switch to Boron in the blink of an eye and drop some serious weight. But they won't until the Camaro's MSRP moves up. They lost 88lbs in the Fiesta structure from 2010-2011 and nothing changed except material and some structure redesigning. The key was to undercut the current Camaro and they did that.

We have seen the S550's structure makeup... There was very little weight savings accomplished or Aluminum or Boron wasn't used. There really wasn't much effort made in the content either. Nor was the wheelbase reduced and it was made wider. It tells me that they couldn't undercut the Camaro without using traditional material. To make the Camaro look stupid, they undercut the old car with their new one....


....and the Camaro sales are in the shitter...

 

[traxiii]

Typically, FIA GT3 Mustangs were no where near OEM. It remains to be seen if the S550 can enter those classes (GT in IMSA, GT3 in FIA) with minimal intrusion.

The new car was built for this but, they would need an engine healthy enough to compete. Another mission for the Voodoo perhaps...

Kind of what I thought, and the Voodoo ought to have more to give in race trim if the street/mass production version is going to be over 520HP.

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