GT350 vs. Z/28

[thePill]

BTW, the order guides for the GT350/350R have leaked.

MagneRide is part of the 350R but is optional on the 350.

Then the R is just specifically made to embarrass the z28 in a magazine tug fest. The GT350 is the only usable model.

Note that the GT350 is only allowed a 295 front and 305 rear. That is limited by the SCCA.

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[thePill]

According the the order guide, MagnaRide is only availible in the Tech Package and the Track Package. It IS NOT standard on the R Package. That is nice but the GT350 is more compliant than the GT350R.

Edit: Nvm, the Track Pack is included in the R. It is solely intended to make the z28 look bad for a lower MSRP. The GT350 is the compliant model, NOT the R.

 

[L8APEX]

Then the R is just specifically made to embarrass the z28 in a magazine tug fest. The GT350 is the only usable model.

Note that the GT350 is only allowed a 295 front and 305 rear. That is limited by the SCCA.

????

How is the GT350R not "usable?"

 

[1320']

????

How is the GT350R not "usable?"

MagneRide and CC brakes are not permitted in SCCA/IMSA racing.

 

[L8APEX]

MagneRide and CC brakes are not permitted in SCCA/IMSA racing.

Oh! I thought he meant for the streets.

 

[1320']

Oh! I thought he meant for the streets.

Oh it's very usable for the streets and hobby racers on "track days, brah" events.

For real racing the GT350R is effectively a dead player, just as the ZL1 was and is

 

[Trackaholic]

"track days, brah"

All I think of is:
[ame]

-T

 

[1320']

All I think of is:


-T

That is exactly what I was referencing.

Got your Hoosiers?

 

[thePill]

Oh it's very usable for the streets and hobby racers on "track days, brah" events.

For real racing the GT350R is effectively a dead player, just as the ZL1 was and is

Yep, the "R" wasn't for "Race", it was for "Revenge"...

The regular GT350 is probably z28 speed, already pushing most people's talent. There is no factory class for the lap times the GT350R is rumored to be doing. It's basically all restriction from GTPP and up. The GT350 is too fast for most of the Mustang's old classes. Maybe SCCA GTS and CTSCC GT, GT3 in FIA maybe... but those classes need some decent changes made to the structure anyway.

I never imagined that the speed of the Boss 302 would have just been swept under the rug in less than 6 months.

 

[thePill]

Can the GT350R touch 1:36 flat at Laguna Seca???

I hope we find out soon!!!

A 1:36 with a 136mph ave.??? Please don't wait till Spring!!!

Oh! I thought he meant for the streets.

Whoops! Sorry man, I was speaking in terms of competition, more so Amateur than Pro. If, and I think this is true, If CTSCC was so relaxed on the z28, then the same courtesy is being extended to the GT350R. So, that means, numbers will probably be similar to the z28's production numbers. 500 just to meet requirements and whatever later on. The car will also be availible 30 Days BEFORE the first event in Daytona, say 23 Jan, 2016 to avoid a waiver.

What Ford did for us is, they provided a near SCCA compliant GT350 at a much lower cost. Something Chevy should have done. They also provided an actual response to the z28 in the GT350R... R is not for Racing, it stands for something else appearenly. I mentioned the possibility of the "R" becoming Fords version of the Corvettes "Carbon" on the Z06. The Z07 and Carbon packages made the Z06 competition impotent... Just as the "R" does now. It is only made to make the z28 look bad and maybe put up a fight with the GT3. That would be nice to watch IF you value these magazine comparisons. Obviously, these things create Internet talk and fanatics like... while, I can't really think of a fanatic off-hand ;)

You will see the base GT350 uses only 295's in the front, that is an SCCA requirement. Will it use a more expensive 15 inch rotor in the front? That is another limiting factor in SCCA. But, at least it is closer than an old Base C6 Z06 was. It had displacement issues as well as rear tire sizes in some classes.

As I said and hoped for, the GT350 could replace the C6 Z06 in most of its classes in the next few seasons. That is a lot of SCCA attention... Especially when the Mustang GT is the Boss. I still say build the MGTR, at $40,000, I'm in if it's legal.

 

[thePill]

Might as well mention this here now...

The GT500 was brought up a few days ago, some other internet guys talked about it.

It is in development and, according to their source, will be over 740hp...

Need more sources than just two at HPK.

 

[thePill]

I am composing info on the GT350's version of the Tremec TR3160. There are quite a few questions about this so, I'll give you the basics.

The TR3160 is pretty badass and like I said, it is a shot at the Getrag because, it too is awesome. The base casing is capable of multiple gear ratios, usually labeled as A, B, C and so on. Gone is the gear set names from the 6060 days like M10, MM6, MG9... From Camaro SS to Corvette ZR1 and CTSV, all based on the same casing. However, the capabilities of each were tailored to the specific application. Same thing today... Just as the Getrag...

At first we see a few basic layouts for smaller, non-performance vehicles. They go from 295lb ft to 405lb ft... Neither of these versions are the GT350's or ATS-V's. While they could almost use them, both transmissions in each are unique.

The weights both of those were tested at were 4700lbs and 6600lbs... As I said, neither look to be used in the GT350 or ATSV. Other things I like, the reduced mass version (likely in the GT350) is only 112lbs ready to run and with a 2.7 capacity. There are versions using an SUV steep 1st gear ratio of 5.00:1 and down to 2.95... It is almost the spitting image of a Getrag on paper. Even scaling the TR3160 down to a 4700lbs GVWR of a '15 Mustang will get you around 430lb ft at 4700lbs. Tremec though, traditionally rates the tranny right at the vehicle curb weight. Only exceptions were Corvettes and the Viper, rated at 4000lbs.

Since we don't know what version of TR3160 the GT350 is using yet, none of the initial specs from Tremec will apply.

http://tremec.com/anexos/File/TREMEC_TR-3160.pdf

I think the GT350's transmission will be close to one of these. 405tq @ 6600lbs is no better than a standard Getrag.

I am hoping for an 8 QUART Trans capacity for the GT350s, a reduced mass TR3160 gearset (better than the ATS-V's), 1st gear over 3.60 and ONLY ONE OVERDRIVE!!!

All this is possible with the TR3160, so get it done.

EDIT: AH HA, look at that bad boy!!! Rated at 4700lbs too

Someone convert TR3160D and see how far up that is.

http://www.tremec.com/anexos/File/TREMEC_TR-3160.Transmission.pdf

 

[thePill]

There you have it, 425lb ft @ 4700lbs, so maybe 525-540hp? No need to get technical, one overdrive, 112lbs, a 3.25 1st gear and 6 quart cap. Understand though, this is just the base casing capacity. Caddy made some changes in their TR3160 and got 445 at about 4700lbs too.

Sound good?


...and your welcome...

Oh, Seven-Oh says no...

Your slide rule needs some recalibration. The torque rating is the torque rating, regardless of a vehicle's weight. And in what vehicle weighing "10,000 lb." was the MT82 featured, as OE?

Face it, the GT350s are now restricted by a minimalist transmission to "factory power - tuners need not apply".

Well, well... This is an interesting logic...

In order to obtain an objects capacity, as in strength, you need two things...

Force and Resistance. The "Force" applied in this equation is the engines torque output into the transmission. The "Resistance" comes from drivetrain parasitic losses, vehicle weight (curb and gross), traction, gravity, aero... basically, everything working to slow that engine down and stall it. This is identified as the "Output capacity" and is commonly overlooked because "Moar Powa". Now, if one were to acquire a maximum torque capacity of said moving part, you could not just let it spin freely. If this were the case, Dyno's would register infinite HP and TQ ratings. If you alter the load (resistance), the torque capacity in the transmission will actually rise without changing A DAMN thing other than weight. What if the rollers only weighed 2500lbs on an inertia Dyno? Torque would be almost double... Joe is leading you down a deadend argument tunnel. When you win, he will vanish like ninja...

Say it's 400tq@4000lbs, it could be 410tq@3900lbs and nothing really changed except the load...

Speaking of load, don't buy the load Joe tries to save the Camaro with. It's a bad product, even Chevy wants to move on.

 

[minjitta]

Might as well mention this here now...

The GT500 was brought up a few days ago, some other internet guys talked about it.

It is in development and, according to their source, will be over 740hp...

Need more sources than just two at HPK.

Whats the rumor mills for gt500 does it get tt6 or fpc?

 

[1320']

There you have it, 425lb ft @ 4700lbs, so maybe 525-540hp? No need to get technical, one overdrive, 112lbs, a 3.25 1st gear and 6 quart cap. Understand though, this is just the base casing capacity. Caddy made some changes in their TR3160 and got 445 at about 4700lbs too.

Sound good?


...and your welcome...

Oh, Seven-Oh says no...
Well, well... This is an interesting logic...

In order to obtain an objects capacity, as in strength, you need two things...

Force and Resistance. The "Force" applied in this equation is the engines torque output into the transmission. The "Resistance" comes from drivetrain parasitic losses, vehicle weight (curb and gross), traction, gravity, aero... basically, everything working to slow that engine down and stall it. This is identified as the "Output capacity" and is commonly overlooked because "Moar Powa". Now, if one were to acquire a maximum torque capacity of said moving part, you could not just let it spin freely. If this were the case, Dyno's would register infinite HP and TQ ratings. If you alter the load (resistance), the torque capacity in the transmission will actually rise without changing A DAMN thing other than weight. What if the rollers only weighed 2500lbs on an inertia Dyno? Torque would be almost double... Joe is leading you down a deadend argument tunnel. When you win, he will vanish like ninja...

Say it's 400tq@4000lbs, it could be 410tq@3900lbs and nothing really changed except the load...

Speaking of load, don't buy the load Joe tries to save the Camaro with. It's a bad product, even Chevy wants to move on.

Based on the thread over at Camaro5 they're having a slight bit of problem understanding load and resistance dynamics when it comes to drivetrain design.

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