TheLion
Well-Known Member
Try driving the Mustang on Auto X and Track like a momentum car. That's how you typically drive the SS. It doesn't pull as much as the Mustang in an equal gear, there's a huge difference.
You also launch the SS at a much higher RPM, 4k to 5k depending on altitude. Why? Because 1st in the TR6060 is 2.66, which nearly as tall as 2nd in the GT! The gearing is set up to minimize shifting and carry you through turns under power without breaking traction.
The gearing on the GT (assuming your using 2nd on both) is set up for straight line acceleration. I'll bet a stock GT would be faster on a road course if you drove it like a momentum car and ran the next higher gear, trying to carry speed through the corner rather than come in hot, brake hard and power out. It's simply a faster way to go around a race track. That's how Formula cars drive, momentum cars (MX-5, BRZ, S2000 etc) and the SS even though it's not a momentum car.
1st in the SS is tall enough drive it like the GT, you can hit 54 mph in 1st on the SS, so there's plenty of gear to run it in 1st on a corner in auto X, but that's not the fastest way to drive the car.
The IRS compliance in the GT is a HUGE issue with getting the power down. Especially if your on stock tires. The Eagle F1's on the SS, while not the best tire, are definitely better than the Pirellies on the GT. Throw in the big issue with too much IRS compliance and you have mad wheel hop.
Every review I've seen notes the difficulty in getting the power down at launch on the GT. A sub-par launch will easily cost you .2 to .3 on the 1/4. That would drop an otherwise stock GT's 1/4 mile time down to the same as what the SS does.
Road and Track tested both cars to 150, the GT ran 26.4 and the SS ran 26.7 seconds. They were literally almost the same. Should be, because they make almost the same power. But the SS runs out of breath fast after 140, once your out of 4th gear (1.00 ratio), to get that last 10 mph, you need 5th which is OD gear at 0.85. That's tall and that's why it takes 7 more seconds to get to 150 than it does to 140.
Motor Trend ran their SS at 12.4 in the 1/4, but only 12.9 (they did 12.8 earlier) on their PP GT (which was also a bloated premium). They noted however the 0-60 on the SS was 4.0 seconds while the GT was 4.6. There's your time right there. The GT just can't get off the line fast. Too much gearing, too little grip and too much IRS compliance. Road and Track was only able to launch their GT as 2400 RPM, yet the GT runs a 3.657 1st gear. The SS was launched around 4k to 4.5k RPM. Your just wasting a lot of time in the GT at launch. 4.0 vs. 4.6 is a huge difference, yet the GT's gearing allows it put down full rev range in 1st and 2nd...so if both cars had infinite traction, the GT is capable of doing a lot more work in the same distance it takes to 60. Problem is, we're in the real world where we have far less than infinite traction...
I think had they tried to launch in 2nd gear and slipped the clutch they could have shaved off a good .2 to .3 seconds if not more on the GT. 1st on the SS is 2.66, 2nd on the GT is 2.43, darn close. Probably would need to launch around 3.5k to 4.5k range but on stock IRS and crappy Pirellies the benefit of skipping a shift and lower starting torque would be realized. Both the SS and GT requires a 1-2 shift to get to 60 if your starting from 1st gear, but the GT's gearing allows you to rev out the engine in both gears. So your total work being down is greater, just can't realize it in the real world because of traction. We need an AWD Mustang GT!
Both cars run a 3.73 rear end and both cars make nearly identical total power from 2000 RPP to their respective redlines. But the SS's gearing, suspensions and tires are way different than the GT's and it works to the advantage of the SS in real world situations with limited traction to allow a human being to maximize power down. Interestingly, the SS A8's first 4 gears are nearly identical in ratio to the GT 6M's! But the A8 has a torque converter and taller rear end and can shift gear to gear faster than a human, so it can more effectively leverage gearing.
Case in point look at what Braski did with his "Project Midnight" GT. He ended up running an 11.86 with just suspension work, a PP2 and DR's (he has a PP GT 6M). PP2 is worth only 24 peak hp, not that much. That's .2s on the 1/4 mile with no other changes.
The PP2 isn't a huge power adder, so take away the PP2 and your at 12.06. Add another 1/10th for the DR's and the rest is all IRS upgrades that helped get the power down and allow the GT to utilize it's gearing. That's the same as the fastest SS 6M on the fast list that also had more favorable DA (they were at -800~-1000 in 50~60F temp range, can't get better than that!) than Braski. So if you equalize suspension, DA and tires they run neck and neck and they should because they make nearly identical total power and are within 75 lbs of each other!
You also launch the SS at a much higher RPM, 4k to 5k depending on altitude. Why? Because 1st in the TR6060 is 2.66, which nearly as tall as 2nd in the GT! The gearing is set up to minimize shifting and carry you through turns under power without breaking traction.
The gearing on the GT (assuming your using 2nd on both) is set up for straight line acceleration. I'll bet a stock GT would be faster on a road course if you drove it like a momentum car and ran the next higher gear, trying to carry speed through the corner rather than come in hot, brake hard and power out. It's simply a faster way to go around a race track. That's how Formula cars drive, momentum cars (MX-5, BRZ, S2000 etc) and the SS even though it's not a momentum car.
1st in the SS is tall enough drive it like the GT, you can hit 54 mph in 1st on the SS, so there's plenty of gear to run it in 1st on a corner in auto X, but that's not the fastest way to drive the car.
The IRS compliance in the GT is a HUGE issue with getting the power down. Especially if your on stock tires. The Eagle F1's on the SS, while not the best tire, are definitely better than the Pirellies on the GT. Throw in the big issue with too much IRS compliance and you have mad wheel hop.
Every review I've seen notes the difficulty in getting the power down at launch on the GT. A sub-par launch will easily cost you .2 to .3 on the 1/4. That would drop an otherwise stock GT's 1/4 mile time down to the same as what the SS does.
Road and Track tested both cars to 150, the GT ran 26.4 and the SS ran 26.7 seconds. They were literally almost the same. Should be, because they make almost the same power. But the SS runs out of breath fast after 140, once your out of 4th gear (1.00 ratio), to get that last 10 mph, you need 5th which is OD gear at 0.85. That's tall and that's why it takes 7 more seconds to get to 150 than it does to 140.
Motor Trend ran their SS at 12.4 in the 1/4, but only 12.9 (they did 12.8 earlier) on their PP GT (which was also a bloated premium). They noted however the 0-60 on the SS was 4.0 seconds while the GT was 4.6. There's your time right there. The GT just can't get off the line fast. Too much gearing, too little grip and too much IRS compliance. Road and Track was only able to launch their GT as 2400 RPM, yet the GT runs a 3.657 1st gear. The SS was launched around 4k to 4.5k RPM. Your just wasting a lot of time in the GT at launch. 4.0 vs. 4.6 is a huge difference, yet the GT's gearing allows it put down full rev range in 1st and 2nd...so if both cars had infinite traction, the GT is capable of doing a lot more work in the same distance it takes to 60. Problem is, we're in the real world where we have far less than infinite traction...
I think had they tried to launch in 2nd gear and slipped the clutch they could have shaved off a good .2 to .3 seconds if not more on the GT. 1st on the SS is 2.66, 2nd on the GT is 2.43, darn close. Probably would need to launch around 3.5k to 4.5k range but on stock IRS and crappy Pirellies the benefit of skipping a shift and lower starting torque would be realized. Both the SS and GT requires a 1-2 shift to get to 60 if your starting from 1st gear, but the GT's gearing allows you to rev out the engine in both gears. So your total work being down is greater, just can't realize it in the real world because of traction. We need an AWD Mustang GT!
Both cars run a 3.73 rear end and both cars make nearly identical total power from 2000 RPP to their respective redlines. But the SS's gearing, suspensions and tires are way different than the GT's and it works to the advantage of the SS in real world situations with limited traction to allow a human being to maximize power down. Interestingly, the SS A8's first 4 gears are nearly identical in ratio to the GT 6M's! But the A8 has a torque converter and taller rear end and can shift gear to gear faster than a human, so it can more effectively leverage gearing.
Case in point look at what Braski did with his "Project Midnight" GT. He ended up running an 11.86 with just suspension work, a PP2 and DR's (he has a PP GT 6M). PP2 is worth only 24 peak hp, not that much. That's .2s on the 1/4 mile with no other changes.
The PP2 isn't a huge power adder, so take away the PP2 and your at 12.06. Add another 1/10th for the DR's and the rest is all IRS upgrades that helped get the power down and allow the GT to utilize it's gearing. That's the same as the fastest SS 6M on the fast list that also had more favorable DA (they were at -800~-1000 in 50~60F temp range, can't get better than that!) than Braski. So if you equalize suspension, DA and tires they run neck and neck and they should because they make nearly identical total power and are within 75 lbs of each other!
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