Adding a Switch to the Dash ona 2019 GT Premium

[GregP27]

Hi all. New member here.

I am 68 now but, when I was younger, I competed in motorcycle Observed Trials as well as pavement and offroad motorsports of several varieties. Along the way, I picked up some wisdom from some very good engine builders. One of the things they told me in the early days was that high-performance engines should never be started without oil pressure. I followed that religiously in my own racing days for car engines, but could not really do anything about it in motorcycle engines. In cars, I usually added an oil pump that I would run until I saw oil pressure. Other times, merely routed the starter and ignition to two separate switches, one for the starter and one for the ignition.

Cut to today and I have a 2019 Mustang GT Premium, PP1, Kona Blue, 6-speed manual on order to be delivered soon. If ever I had a street engine that you can call high-performance, this one should be: 460 hp from 307 cu. in. .

I imagine it would be difficult to separate the ignition from the starter under the dash or under the hood, but it should be easily possible to put in a spring-loaded to off switch that operates the starter (solid-state relay) without the ignition being enabled. All I SHOULD have to do is get battery current to the starter, separate from the start button. That way, I can operate the starter until I see normal oil pressure and, then, start it normally. The engine parts will then have oil film protection at startup. It stood me in good stead for many racing years to do that and my engines showed less than average wear when I disassembled them after a racing season. Last season was a few years back, but I like the idea of oil pressure in my GT before startup. Also, starters are WAY cheaper than engine rebuilds.

So … my car is not here yet. Can any of the 2019 GT owners tell me if there is a good place on the dash for an owner-added switch? I mean actually IN the dash. I can always drill a hole and add one, but it would be much better if it looked like a factory switch.

I appreciate it. Thanks!

- Greg

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[showbbq]

If you're concerned about your engine internals, could you add a bottle of Ceratec and call it a day? It sounds like a worthwhile project either way.

 

[TicTocTach]

Interesting - I've done similar things in the past on my old Plymouths - but usually related to the fact that the starter circuit was messed up in the key switch, so a push-button starter switch was the shade-tree solution. We also looked at it like a theft prevention feature, and later updated the operation to be an interrupter switch on the coil power side. Maybe that's more in line with what you are looking for, but also the ability to cut fuel to the engine while cranking.

Specifically related to oiling and pre-oiling, I have racing buddies that use an Accusump oil accumulator to store pressurized oil in a remote reservoir while running, and that can be pushed into the oil system before starting. Just open the valve to recharge the Accusump before shutting the engine off and you're ready to go the next time.

I would almost wager that there is a way to do this through a tune - delay fuel and spark for 5-10 seconds before starting. I'm just speculating here though, so hopefully others will provide an informed answer.

I guess before going too far down this road, is there any evidence that the new engines hold oil on the bearings & cylinder walls any better or worse than the old engines? If this is a situation where new technology has improved oil retention versus the old engines, maybe this isn't as much of a problem as it once was.

 

[boB]

Getting oil pressure before starting is probably a good thing but with engines lasting 100,000 miles and more it seems that startup wear is not the problem it used to be. Roller cam followers may have eliminated one of the biggest problems.

However, your original question is how to add a switch. I should get my Mustang around the end of February and I would also like to add a switch so I will be looking into that and following this thread.

 

[GregP27]

I don't think new engines hold oil any better than old ones. The oil eventually drains and you start up with metal-to-metal contact in the cylinders until oil pressure is established.

Hence my desire to get oil pressure up before energizing the ignition. I'll look into it with Ford. If I can do it with a tune, that would be ideal.

And thank you!

Ho boB,

I'm getting my GT around the same time. I have the VIN number, but no update on delivery yet. So far, I have a Daytona white stripe, an oil separator, wheels and tires, hood struts, vertical links, jacking rails, and a Sto N Show front license adapter waiting here for it. Should have them on the same day I get it, starting with the jacking rails.

Hope you are as ready for it as I am! But ... I will try to get the Ford dealership to help with the ignition delay. We'll see. Either way, I'll get it done.

I would also like to make the interior a bit quieter than stock. I like the sound, but the wife doesn't, and her opinion is important to me. It means the difference between this being just a fun car for me or one we can both enjoy. The last thing I wanted was a sound resonator!

A good old muscle car sound would be great. I used to get that with FlowMaster. My old 1967 Plymouth GTX 426 4-Speed sounded wonderful. But a fake resonator sound, while OK to me, is not what I wanted to hear.

 

[Zooks527]

I understand the concept, but I fail to see much advantage to spinning the engine at ~1000 RPM using the starter versus spinning the engine at ~1200 RPM using the cylinders. It's going to take about the same number of engine revolutions to get the oil up into all the galleries regardless of the method used to turn the engine over.

 

[GregP27]

I'd agree with you if I ever saw an engine crank at 1,000 rpm. A starter won 't even come close to that unless they have been greatly improved. Since I'm an electrical engineer, I don't think so. You might do that if you were plugged into a 120 Volt receptacle, but all you have is a 12-Volt battery to spin it.

Anyway, I suppose I'll just wait and find a switch location when my car gets here. Either there is one or there's not. If not, I'll drill a hole somewhere and put a covered switch in it.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Have you considered an Accusump which would make a switch unnecessary and also has other benefits?

 

[boB]

Hey Greg,
I just turned 68 and same story with what myself and my wife want from the Mustang. To make her happier I ordered MagneRide and active exhaust to improve comfort and noise, then Premium for the heated/cooled seats. But I kept the 6 speed!
There are threads about removing the intake noise tube device but a clever owner added an irrigation system valve to the tube to turn it on/off, worth looking into and <$10.

After that I may add some DynaMat. Hope we both get our Mustangs soon!

boB

I would also like to make the interior a bit quieter than stock. I like the sound, but the wife doesn't, and her opinion is important to me. It means the difference between this being just a fun car for me or one we can both enjoy. The last thing I wanted was a sound resonator!

A good old muscle car sound would be great. I used to get that with FlowMaster. My old 1967 Plymouth GTX 426 4-Speed sounded wonderful. But a fake resonator sound, while OK to me, is not what I wanted to hear.

 

[Dave TBG]

My first thought was that a momentary switch that would cut fuel and/or spark would be easier than a switch to operate only the starter. My second thought was that a switch to cut fuel and/or spark would throw codes every time you use it. Adding a software delay is probably the best bet, an accusump would probably be easier.
On the other side of it, advances in metalurgy have certainly made at least some contribution to reduced wear at start-up, modern oil technology has come even further. I wouldn't go so far as to say that start-up wear is no longer an issue, but it certainly isn't the issue that it was decades ago.

 

[Dave TBG]

My first thought was that a momentary switch that would cut fuel and/or spark would be easier than a switch to operate only the starter. My second thought was that a switch to cut fuel and/or spark would throw codes every time you use it. Adding a software delay is probably the best bet, an accusump would probably be easier.
On the other side of it, advances in metalurgy have certainly made at least some contribution to reduced wear at start-up, modern oil technology has come even further. I wouldn't go so far as to say that start-up wear is no longer an issue, but it certainly isn't the issue that it was decades ago.

 

[GregP27]

Hi boB,

Well, we're the same age and I'm waiting for a very similar car to yours, also a 6-speed. Hope we DO get them soon. I live in SoCal and your're in Florida, so that makes it tough to go on a drive together unless we meet in Texas for B-B-Q after we break these puppies in. Strange as it may seem, I did that once. Met a friend from South Carolina in Austin for a weekend of some fun. If you get a chance, maybe post a link to the sound tube valve. I already have a box of stuff to block it, but would likely just put in a valve if someone has worked it out already. Many THANKS.

Hi Dave TBG,

You're probably right about advances making in unnecessary. But, I am wondering why it should throw codes if I turn the starter over without starting it. Does getting into the car with your key in you pocket turn on the ignition? Come to think of it, since the starter is a button, is there an ignition at all? Does getting in make your windows work because it enables the battery power? These are questions I haven't thought about because I don't have the car yet. All my current vehicles have a standard ignition ... you need to turn a key to enable the ignition at all.

Perhaps it is best if I just wait and look at the thing when it comes in! But, hey, if boB can throw in that link to the valve, I'd appreciate it!

 

[opengl]

Hold the gas pedal to the floor and ignition is cut, then you can crank as much as you want without starting. I do this after oil changes to circulate oil and build some pressure before the first start.

 

[boB]

Add a valve to the sound tube: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/an-option-to-the-sound-tube-delete.97759/

 

[GregP27]

Thank you to both opengl128 and boB! Both of your replies are exactly what I was trying to find.

Spot on and cheers to you both.

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