5.2L FPC firing order and other Voodoo questions

[Demonic]

Just to make sure I'm wrapping my head around this:
You want to make something that consists of a Voodoo bottom end, Coyote heads, change the 2018 ECU program to the Voodoo firing order, and tune for boost through the ECU?

What cams are you using? If you're going to use a Voodoo bottom end and firing order, you'll need Voodoo cams to match the firing order. And Voodoo cams aren't drop in compatible with Coyote heads.

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[J_Maher_AMG]

Even if this project were plausible, even if the tuning could be done correctly and the engine not blow up, even if the forced induction could be added safely....

At the end of the day you'd be left with an engine capable of big power, but a powertrain that would be utterly incompetent of dealing with the power and vibrations, and a chassis/suspension that is, in comparison, useless. Is this being planned as a drag car? If not, unless you literally plan to completely overhaul the entire car and basically turn it into a modern GT350 w/2008 sheet metal, its probably just going to be a recipe for disaster.

 

[JAJ]

I believe that table isn't adjustable isn't it? And not that it matters but just a talking point, don't we have 4 knock sensors?

As far as I know, the table's adjustable if you have the right tools like SCT Pro Racer or similar. Forscan won't do it.

The Voodoo has the same number of knock sensors as pretty much all of the modular V8's up to 2017 - it has two, one per bank. I believe that the 2018 has four.

 

[nastang87xx]

Just to make sure I'm wrapping my head around this:
You want to make something that consists of a Voodoo bottom end, Coyote heads, change the 2018 ECU program to the Voodoo firing order, and tune for boost through the ECU?

Yeah what you said man...I'm beyond confused.

 

[dev1360]

Firing order can be changed in the tune. I can confirm it, I can see it in HPTuners. For what it's worth, Voodoo heads already have a DI dimple in them where the injector would normally go. Some keen-eyed journalist already spotted it and wrote an article about it in 2015ish.

I think that you're literally insane, and this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard of. But, you at least seem to be reasonably intelligent, and well aware of what you're getting into.

Personally, I'd just do a 2018 engine and call it a day. They will rev to the same RPM with the correct mods and have the DI already. You just won't have the FPC, which is causing a lot of headaches for a surprisingly large number of Voodoo owners.

 

[nastang87xx]

You just won't have the FPC, which is causing a lot of headaches for a surprisingly large number of Voodoo owners.

And those headaches specifically are........? :doh:

 

[Demonic]

And those headaches specifically are........? :doh:

I think he means the withdrawal effect headache from going too long without driving the car.

 

[JAJ]

Firing order can be changed in the tune. I can confirm it, I can see it in HPTuners...

I can see the firing order table in SCT as well, but what's not clear is what the table actually does.

Since you have a different package, I'm hoping that you have more information on this topic.

Specifically, I'm interested in knowing whether, if you change the firing order in the firing order table, the output pins on the wiring harness connector actually trigger in the revised order.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the module is designed so that a specific sequence of pins always fire in the same order. The firing order of the engine is determined by which pins are connected to which cylinder. In that case, all the table actually would do is tell the ECU how the wiring harness is wired.

 

[Demonic]

I can see the firing order table in SCT as well, but what's not clear is what the table actually does.

Since you have a different package, I'm hoping that you have more information on this topic.

Specifically, I'm interested in knowing whether, if you change the firing order in the firing order table, the output pins on the wiring harness connector actually trigger in the revised order.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the module is designed so that a specific sequence of pins always fire in the same order. The firing order of the engine is determined by which pins are connected to which cylinder. In that case, all the table actually would do is tell the ECU how the wiring harness is wired.

But even if he gets the firing order correct, he'll need camshafts with a FPC firing order, and the Voodoo cams don't drop fit into the Coyote head he wants to use. I know there's at least one company that can convert the Voodoo heads to accept Coyote cams, for Mustang owners wanting to put the Voodoo heads on a Coyote block, but I haven't seen it work the other way around.

 

[JAJ]

But even if he gets the firing order correct, he'll need camshafts with a FPC firing order, and the Voodoo cams don't drop fit into the Coyote head he wants to use. I know there's at least one company that can convert the Voodoo heads to accept Coyote cams, for Mustang owners wanting to put the Voodoo heads on a Coyote block, but I haven't seen it work the other way around.

All that and more, really. Then he has to find spots for two more knock sensors, or more likely four new spots. I have some sympathy for the OP though - this is an interesting engineering challenge and it's fun to think about if you don't have the skills and resources to do it, and fun to do if you do.

Even on the cylinder head issue, there are options - rather than messing with 2018 heads to take Voodoo cams, he could have custom FPC cams ground from blanks that fit the 2018 heads. Or he can machine Voodoo heads to accept DI injectors, although the combustion chamber is probably the wrong shape.

 

[nastang87xx]

Even on the cylinder head issue, there are options - rather than messing with 2018 heads to take Voodoo cams, he could have custom FPC cams ground from blanks that fit the 2018 heads. Or he can machine Voodoo heads to accept DI injectors, although the combustion chamber is probably the wrong shape.

This.

 

[Demonic]

All that and more, really. Then he has to find spots for two more knock sensors, or more likely four new spots. I have some sympathy for the OP though - this is an interesting engineering challenge and it's fun to think about if you don't have the skills and resources to do it, and fun to do if you do.

Even on the cylinder head issue, there are options - rather than messing with 2018 heads to take Voodoo cams, he could have custom FPC cams ground from blanks that fit the 2018 heads. Or he can machine Voodoo heads to accept DI injectors, although the combustion chamber is probably the wrong shape.

This.

True, but again, it then seems like he's quickly approaching the situation of doing an inordinate amount of work to mimic a backyard version of what Ford did when they developed the Coyote into the Voodoo. OP seems to have left the thread though, so I think we now may be the only ones working on this pedagogical engine.

 

[nastang87xx]

True, but again, it then seems like he's quickly approaching the situation of doing an inordinate amount of work to mimic a backyard version of what Ford did when they developed the Coyote into the Voodoo. OP seems to have left the thread though, so I think we now may be the only ones working on this pedagogical engine.

I agree with this too. Or he should be calling up Frankenstein Engine Dynamics, L&M Engines, or Livernois and see what their perspective is and what they think could be done and go from there. While I think it's a bit nonsensical, I can appreciate what the OP is trying to accomplish with different but damn this is out there. Which is why I think a call to the REAL pros, not us half witted degenerate keyboard warriors, is the best first step.

 

[nastang87xx]

I think he means the withdrawal effect headache from going too long without driving the car.

No kidding. What a stupid comment. How many crank failures have we ACTUALLY been able to confirm? Fry...? Fry...? Bueller...? Anyone...?

Game. Set. Match.

 

[dev1360]

I wasn't talking about crank failures. At all. Excessive vibrations from the non-traditional FPC design, cracked blocks, and oil consumption. 18s suffer from none of these issues. But 350 owners are sensitive to these problems and pretend they don't exist.

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