Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

MrWolf said:

So what you are saying is that the SS is about the same as the PP1... curious...

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Which was what I predicted. The PP1 is an SS competitor. On the same track on the same day, I would even say the tires on the SS put it at a slight disadvantage. The 1LE isn't cheaper than a PP1, and people are already seeing amazing deals on the Mustang.

You can easily compare the 16 SS with the 18 GT PP by looking at the Head2Head M4 vs SS:

2016 SS MT:
0 - 60: 4.1s
Quarter Mile: 12.4s
Figure Eight: 24.1s
Track: 1:23:15

2018 SS 1LE MT:
0 - 60: 4.1s
Quarter Mile: 12.5s
Figure Eight: 22.9s
Track: 1:20:67

2018 GT PP1 MT:
0 - 60: 4.4s
Quarter Mile: 12.6s
Figure Eight: 24.0s
Track: 1:23:97

As you can see, 18 GT a bit behind the SS. So to me it's quite unlikely that the PP2 will top 1LE. But of course this is all about numbers from professional drivers. So for us normal people the skill of the driver should be still more important that the decision of SS vs GT PP1 if you want to have the fastest car of them.

Tommy V said:

If the 1le really did beat the pp1 buy over 3 seconds then theirs no way a pp2 iis going to make up that kind of ground.Their is no way that their is 3 second difference between.the pp1 and pp2,for guys that understand just how much faster 3 seconds is!!!

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The PP2 is apparently 3.5 seconds quicker than the PP1 at Grattan.

"While testing the car at Grattan Raceway in Michigan, the Level 2 package shaved 3.5 seconds from the Lap time of the Level 1 package. Impressive considering there was no power increase."

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...g-gt-performance-package-level-2-info-photos/

So if the metrics used to score cars favored the Camaro because those metrics are actually better, why do we now have a 2nd thread of crying? Again, I have no idea why people get caught up in Magazine benchmarkings, dyno benchmarks, etc. They are all subjective, opinionated views. Unless you aren't making money from your car competitively racing, I think you will be ok being HUNDRETHS of a second slower than another car.

Motor Trend does love GM, so of course they conveniently schedule their test so that the actual 1LE competitor isn't available. I've driven several current-gen Camaros and the handling is awesome, so the Camaro deserves praise, but make it a fair fight. If you're interested in seeing a fair comparison, check out the Edmunds video:

Dragster said:

The LT1 is a great engine and has a ton of torque, but that makes it boring to drive on the street, IMO.

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My 93 LT1 is not boring :|

Same goes for my 2017 Mustang GT I love both cars!

Bullitt said:

Motor Trend does love GM, so of course they conveniently schedule their test so that the actual 1LE competitor isn't available. I've driven several current-gen Camaros and the handling is awesome, so the Camaro deserves praise, but make it a fair fight. If you're interested in seeing a fair comparison, check out the Edmunds video:

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That was a really good video. I wish more reviews would do auto v auto or manual v manual. It's hard to do a proper comparison when they are mixed.

Also funny that the Camaro turned into a ZL1 in some of the B-roll.

17 said:

My 93 LT1 is not boring :|

Same goes for my 2017 Mustang GT I love both cars!

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I still don't get why they reused the LT1 name.

The Edmunds review was a decidedly less performance-oriented take on these cars, but at least they were up-front about it. Call it a review for those who want a street car that wouldn't be completely out of its element for a novice driver on the track, vs MT's review being more for those who'd drive a serious track-oriented car on the street without thinking twice.

There are things I like about each car, and things I don't.


Norm

I dont get why everyone is upset. They tested the cars that were available, and clearly stated they would be running the test again soon, so probably when the PP2 is available. Thats not favoritism, thats just whats available. It amazes me that everyone is so mad at MT for this article. They clearly praise the Mustang for its good qualities, but is it there fault it cant keep up with the Camaro? They state that the 350R is a great track car and that the GT just doesnt share its characteristics. Whose fault is that? Motortrend? If anything we should all be barking up Fords tree to develop a new, lighter, better handling and hopefully smaller chassis. Does nobody want this car to be better and be able to beat the Camaro? How are people not tired of having the Camaro be the better performing car? Ford, build a new chassis that retains the good characteristics of the current Mustang, but has better performance.

Seems consistent with my experience with the 1LE. In two sessions, early in my Mustang's build and tracking experience, I achieved a 3 second faster time in the 1LE than my Mustang, which I had far more experience in. Was given the opportunity to drive the guys car with him in it, and he was 250 lbs. so he more than made up for the weight difference between our cars - the Mustang being heavier. It's an excellent car... with a gad awful dash design. If I could go back in time, I'd probably get a 1LE. But it's 1LE vs. PP2 and SS vs. PP1 - that's the comparo.

65Terdlingua said:

I dont get why everyone is upset. They tested the cars that were available, and clearly stated they would be running the test again soon, so probably when the PP2 is available. Thats not favoritism, thats just whats available. It amazes me that everyone is so mad at MT for this article. They clearly praise the Mustang for its good qualities, but is it there fault it cant keep up with the Camaro? They state that the 350R is a great track car and that the GT just doesnt share its characteristics. Whose fault is that? Motortrend? If anything we should all be barking up Fords tree to develop a new, lighter, better handling and hopefully smaller chassis. Does nobody want this car to be better and be able to beat the Camaro? How are people not tired of having the Camaro be the better performing car? Ford, build a new chassis that retains the good characteristics of the current Mustang, but has better performance.

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Trust me, Motor Trend has no shortage of cars to film videos on if they wanted to wait for the right Mustang (PP2). They didn't have to do a comparison video at all. If they had to do a Mustang article/video because Ford sent them one, they could just do a standalone review and save the comparison for when they can get the proper cars.

What do you want in a car? If throwing down the fastest lap times to you is your priority then the Camaro 1LE is the car to get for the price point. If your car is more of a daily driver and less of a focused track car then the Mustang is the better car. I have no horse in this race but I do agree that a PP2 and 1LE and PP1 and SS are the closer comparison. But it is what it is, and that comparison will happen at some point.

I drove a 2018 PP1M6 Mustang last week and a 2SS yesterday and my observations are the Camaro really is the better drivers car and the Mustang the better all around car. The Camaro has noticeble more torque and sharper steering. The Ford steeting is slighly more numb but the Coyote loves to rev. The Mustang sounds better. The Camaro has a lot of compromises vs the Mustang in terms of interior. The sighlines are worse. The head unit is tilted down and looks cheap. The storgage in the car is just terrible. The trunk is ridiculous for a car this size. The 2SS seats uncomoftable vs the Mustang seats. On a 20 minute test drive I was already uncomfortable. The vents by your hands are poorly placed.

The overall materials are similar but the Mustang is just a better executed car in terms of styling and function. I thikn the Mustang looks better too.

The Mustang is no performance slouch. It really is no longer just a muscle car, but the Camaro is a better dialed in drivers car and the numbers don't lie.

So it comes down to what you want in a car.

Bullitt said:

Trust me, Motor Trend has no shortage of cars to film videos on if they wanted to wait for the right Mustang (PP2). They didn't have to do a comparison video at all. If they had to do a Mustang article/video because Ford sent them one, they could just do a standalone review and save the comparison for when they can get the proper cars.

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But just listen to your reasoning. They didn't have to do a comparison at all? That's just a poor excuse. Doing these comparisons is their bread and butter. Of course they will do a comparison of the newest and greatest cars. It's not their fault Ford didn't release the PP2 with the rest of the 18's. Or that the PP1 isnt enough of an improvement to keep up with the SS 1LE. Again I say don't be upset with MT. Be upset with Ford not producing a better performing car. And it will really suck if the PP2 comes out and is still just able to keep up. The mustang needs a downsized and improved chassis.