Stock pads are worthless on track!

BmacIL · May 14, 2018

JD_GTPP2 said:
So I am a bit concerned reading this thread and hope someone can offer clarification. I am ordering a 2019 GT PP2 expressly for doing autocross and track days. Are the 6-piston brakes up front truly Brembos, and if so, are they capable of standing up to the abuse of track days? I planned on upgrading the pads and fluid as a matter of course.

I am getting out of a Focus ST that I autocross because the costs of upgrading that platform to something that can be safely tracked were adding up too fast on a $20K car.

thanks in advance for any input/advice

Yes and yes.

JD_GTPP2 · May 14, 2018

BmacIL said:
Yes and yes.

thanks for the quick reply!

SVO MkII · May 14, 2018

JD_GTPP2 said:
So I am a bit concerned reading this thread and hope someone can offer clarification. I am ordering a 2019 GT PP2 expressly for doing autocross and track days. Are the 6-piston brakes up front truly Brembos, and if so, are they capable of standing up to the abuse of track days? I planned on upgrading the pads and fluid as a matter of course.

I am getting out of a Focus ST that I autocross because the costs of upgrading that platform to something that can be safely tracked were adding up too fast on a $20K car.

thanks in advance for any input/advice

Yes, the are Brembos on the GT PP. They even say "Brembo" right on the side in red, to eliminate any confusion :thumbsup:

DPE · May 14, 2018

Just for clarity, the GT PP brakes are 6-pot Brembos. The EB PP brakes are 4-pot non-Brembos. So you can have a PP car without Brembos, but only if you order an EcoBoost. A GT PP2 should be a fantastic track-ready car.

JD_GTPP2 · May 14, 2018

SVO MkII said:
Yes, the are Brembos on the GT PP. They even say "Brembo" right on the side in red, to eliminate any confusion

Yeah, I was a bit thrown by the OP and the mention of the EB PP brakes. I mistakenly assumed that all Mustang PP brakes were Brembos

DR_ · May 14, 2018

DPE said:
A GT PP2 should be a fantastic track-ready car.

I wouldn't call the PP2 track ready as it has no additional oil cooling, transmission cooling or differential cooling.

Optimum Performance · May 28, 2018

SVO MkII said:
Here is a pic of the caliper after one 30 min session at road america. It appears that fluid seeped from the 4 bolt holes. Both calipers showed this. I have never seen this before with either my 911 or my 944 Turbo, both of which get pushed HARD at the track. Yes, a better pad might result in less heat transfer to the caliper, but the caliper shouldn't be weeping fluid out of every orifice. This does not inspire confidence in the manufacture, or design of this caliper. I do feel better having a "genuine" Brembo caliper up front. And when you push that pedal going in to turn 1 at Road America, at roughly 130 mph, you need confidence!

What brand/compound track pad did you run at Road America?

That is very unlikely brake fluid leaking from the ends of the bolts but oils left over from the manufacturing process which is completely normal. The reason you may have never seen this before is because this is a two piece caliper that is bolted together.

These calipers use one flat sealing ring to transfer fluid from the inside to the outside half of the caliper. It is located on the bottom of the caliper. I have attached a picture to highlight it.

wildcatgoal · May 28, 2018

All someone has to do is sell a new backing plate and rear-vented rotors for cars with 14" brakes and it'd solve 90% of the issue on a GT and probably the entire issue on a EB (since it's lighter). It's just venting, it's not rocket science to fix it but someone has to offer a 14" rotor traditionally vented from the rear + a new backing plate to allow for air to get into the veins. And perhaps install some brake ducts if you're pushing it.

Don't NEEEEEEEEEEEEED Brembos for HPDE, just need appropriate rotor design.

wildcatgoal · May 28, 2018

DR_ said:
I wouldn't call the PP2 track ready as it has no additional oil cooling, transmission cooling or differential cooling.

So much agree... all the agrees.

SVO MkII · May 28, 2018

wildcatgoal said:
All someone has to do is sell a new backing plate and rear-vented rotors for cars with 14" brakes and it'd solve 90% of the issue on a GT and probably the entire issue on a EB (since it's lighter). It's just venting, it's not rocket science to fix it but someone has to offer a 14" rotor traditionally vented from the rear + a new backing plate to allow for air to get into the veins. And perhaps install some brake ducts if you're pushing it.

Don't NEEEEEEEEEEEEED Brembos for HPDE, just need appropriate rotor design.

This is probably true. But I think the only rear vented rotors I have seen are around $700 pr. At that price, it's hard to justify sticking with the 4 pistons.

SVO MkII · May 28, 2018

Optimum Performance said:
What brand/compound track pad did you run at Road America?

See my original post.

Norm Peterson · May 29, 2018

BmacIL said:
The rotor thing is legit and is a wtf Ford, but it will not cause the issues seen by Vorshlag or yourself. Small contribution.

:shrug: . . . seems to me if the rotors are running hotter that the pads (and everything behind them) absolutely must be running hotter as well. For the pads only, that's telling me you should be looking at least one step higher on any "pad trackability" scale specifically because of the backward rotor venting. At least one step. I think ditto for the fluid as well.

Norm

Norm Peterson · May 29, 2018

EFI said:
IMHO you should be swapping out the whole setup, not trying to band aid it with pads and fluid if you plan on being competitive and driving aggressively to the car's full potential. If you're just out there to have fun, you'll be fine.

"Out there just to have fun" for a 20-year HPDE veteran is still likely to be pretty hard as far as the brakes are concerned. Certainly well beyond what this backward-venting was intended to be coping with.

Norm

BmacIL · May 29, 2018

Norm Peterson said:
:shrug: . . . seems to me if the rotors are running hotter that the pads (and everything behind them) absolutely must be running hotter as well. For the pads only, that's telling me you should be looking at least one step higher on any "pad trackability" scale specifically because of the backward rotor venting. At least one step. I think ditto for the fluid as well.

Norm

Yes, all correct. The assertion was that the rotor design is the cause of the issue. That's misleading at best. It is a contributor to higher pad temperatures, certainly, but is no silver bullet.

Norm Peterson · May 29, 2018

Yeah, I guess we shouldn't expect Ford (or most any other mfr, US domestic anyway) to specify pads good for too much more abuse than what they designed the rotors they're going to be working with to take.

I wonder if I'd have noticed this if I hadn't heard/read about it first.

Norm

Stock pads are worthless on track!

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