GT350 vs. GT350R at Chuckwalla Raceway

BigHo said:

[MENTION=27061]Offboost[/MENTION] I am definitely a fan of the R as well, but I'm trying to figure out why theres so much hype about something that can be had for 30k less. Motor Trend even said the "gt350 is an excellent car, as long as you don't drive the R model," which makes it sound like its a different platform. They are the same platform and same engine and same transmission with major difference being the rims and tires. I bet if one was to do a resonator delete, add R spoiler, and put on some lightweight 19' rims with cup 2's of same width, not even a professional driver would notice a difference. Definitely would be an interesting analysis if anyone was to ever do one

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I'll give you my opinion coming from a track pack that saw the track a few times. I have owned my R for almost 2 months. Have not tracked the car yet but on the street alone the car "feels" superior. If you look at suspension settings, in particular caster, there is more caster dialed in on the R than there is on a non R. By the way caster in OEM form is not adjustable. Don't know how much that plays a part but I am willing to bet there are other little differences in the cars that are not advertised. Motor Trend likes the 350 but they absolutely think the R is magic, in Liebermans words "pixie dust". I purchased my R at MSRP as I did my Track Pack and it was a no brainer for the upgrade. The wheels alone where worth it as i was going to plop down almost 7k for Forgeline wheels alone not including tires, think about that.

96cobra said:

Not with both cars on Cup2's.

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Where'd you get your data? YouTube link?

Zitrosounds said:

I'll give you my opinion coming from a track pack that saw the track a few times. I have owned my R for almost 2 months. Have not tracked the car yet but on the street alone the car "feels" superior. If you look at suspension settings, in particular caster, there is more caster dialed in on the R than there is on a non R. By the way caster in OEM form is not adjustable. Don't know how much that plays a part but I am willing to bet there are other little differences in the cars that are not advertised. Motor Trend likes the 350 but they absolutely think the R is magic, in Liebermans words "pixie dust". I purchased my R at MSRP as I did my Track Pack and it was a no brainer for the upgrade. The wheels alone where worth it as i was going to plop down almost 7k for Forgeline wheels alone not including tires, think about that.

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Exactly what I am saying there are unknown unadvertised differences that only the engineers at Ford know about.

To the original poster

Yes a regular 350 can be modified to outperform a R but at what cost. If you can buy a R at MSRP and a non R at MSRP then the cost to add the parts is cost prohibitive. Now if you add ADMs then modifying a non R makes it a little more attractive.

I will state my pinion again if you just put carbon fiber wheels and cups tires on a non R it will certainly close the gap but the R will always come out on top. But you will need have a driver capable of maxing out each car because the regular GT350 is certainly no slouch and is a very capable track car.

BigHo said:

I think that is one of the biggest reasons I think so many of us are drawn to the R.

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Agree....it's a package that likely shocked most of us by Ford's willingness to do it. Production based with 11.5 inch carbon fiber wheel and cheater slicks, aggressive aero....wtf Ford and hell yeah! No back seat, no radio?

Hell we were shocked by the standard 350....massive ass brakes, FPC, magride, the hornet's nest sound. The last kick ass GT500 only got 30lb 9.5 inch wheels and tiny V6 rear calipers.....that was how Ford rolled.

The R brings incredible wow factor to the already befuddling 350 package, along with exclusivity. All of this = SERIOUS WANT. It doesn't matter that a regular 350 on Cup2s and lighter wheels is right there with it. As much as the 350 has awesomeness, the R has an unprecedented WOW factor.

Do I want one....hell yeah. Do I think it will be faster than my current 350....not really. Does it matter....no. Will I pay the R tax.....probably not.

There are NO differences unknown in the R. The lightweight wheel/tire combination is dramatic on this platform and so utterly underestimated. They are the secret sauce! If you have driven a R vs stock GT350 the feedback difference is dramatic.
The OE GT350 wheels are HEAVY. Dropping 15lbs at each corner or 12lbs with Forgelines is a lot of rotating mass. The effects of that are felt throughout the driving experience. When I put my stock OE wheels/tires back on my car the feedback is more dull or flat. With the monoblock forged wheel/sticky tire combination the car feels like it can fly. If you have not driven a standard GT350 with that combination there is very little I can describe to convince you. It is something you just have to experience. It is the single best performance enhancement you can make on this platform. There is no substitute for monoblock lightweight forged wheels....every pound matters.

BigHo said:

Has anyone considered going JRZ shocks or any other reputable coiler over setup or are the magnerides more than enough for road and track use?

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The factory MagneRide tuning is very good. I would be hard pressed to spend extra dollars for something that could be fixed with tires.

CSL said:

Agree....it's a package that likely shocked most of us by Ford's willingness to do it. Production based with 11.5 inch carbon fiber wheel and cheater slicks, aggressive aero....wtf Ford and hell yeah! No back seat, no radio?

Hell we were shocked by the standard 350....massive ass brakes, FPC, magride, the hornet's nest sound. The last kick ass GT500 only got 30lb 9.5 inch wheels and tiny V6 rear calipers.....that was how Ford rolled.

The R brings incredible wow factor to the already befuddling 350 package, along with exclusivity. All of this = SERIOUS WANT. It doesn't matter that a regular 350 on Cup2s and lighter wheels is right there with it. As much as the 350 has awesomeness, the R has an unprecedented WOW factor.

Do I want one....hell yeah. Do I think it will be faster than my current 350....not really. Does it matter....no. Will I pay the R tax.....probably not.

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When people look back in car history, this car will be legendary. Ive been into cars my whole life, and it still boggles my mind Ford made such a car.

Was that 3 seconds difference tested with a base R or electonics pack?:lol:

For a layman, there is an easy example of just how much the lightweight wheel and tire is a factor.

Just jack up any corner on any car with a known heavy wheel/tire combo and grab the tire and spin it from zero as hard as you can. Repeat on a lighter combo. It's simple physics. Don't over think it. The results are very telling. I can't remember the .xx second but just changing to a lightweight "non-street legal" Bogart or Centerline wheel in a 1/4 mile car is very significant because the entire race is acceleration of Mass. on a road course it is accel, resistance to decelerate, and centripetal force.

As kids we held a bike wheel at the axle and spun it, try to turn and? Well, Do the same with or without a tire and tube. Which is easier?

Drowning in experienced and thoughtful conjecture is good enterainment though.

I've been tracking my street (daily driver) cars for about 16 years now. Not necessarily a great driver, but I guess experienced. The list I've driven in anger include, SVT Focus, MS3, Z06, 12 GT, 12 Boss, Focus ST and 16 and 17 GT350s. Every one of those cars shaved at least 3 seconds a lap when I purchased lighter rims and better tires (all DOT, no slicks, Hoosiers, etc)

I've driven my 17 GT350 on the same track with both the stock tires and rims and the Forgeline R spec rims with Nitto NT01s which I've been told by a good source are not as good as the Cups. The difference is HUGE. At one track it was worth 3-4 seconds difference with no other changes to the car. I would suggest the difference in times between R and non-R are mostly the tires / rims, but that the way the car feels behind the wheel favors the R (obviously). I think any real differences in lap times would be minimal on the same tires/rims but how it feels setting that time could be more "fun" in the R (and feel more settled with the Aero and other minor differences).

However, my opinion is that if i upgrade to the Ford Racing springs, R rear sway bar along with the r spec track alignment the feel behind the wheel will likely be much more similar. So that's my 2 cents.

FORDSTANGER said:

Drowning in experienced and thoughtful conjecture is good enterainment though.

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totally agree. And up until you go wheel to wheel competitively, overthinking just about everything is what everyone does. It's natural. I still overthink everything and then get smacked down by a really skilled mechanic.

One doesn't worry about the trans temp when the next guy is blowing your doors off. You just drive it. Then you figure out all kinds of things that would work in HPDE.

A guy who knows what he's doing in a civic is going to drive around a lot of GT350s at the track. Just sayin. Forget the difference between cars. Just drive them. Have fun. None of us are gonna be the next Michael Schumacher.