VMP Loki Kit $6999

[Stymee]

One thing that saved u Bluecollar is you hurt both engines on EB tune, that’s where the angels shined on you, otherwise it would’ve been even uglier.

Lund already tested the Odin and said it has tremendous cooling.

I know about the person that’s gone at EB, but from what I heard it’s even more tuff to get things done now?

I personally don’t like the Stage II balancer, much rather run the factory unit but I do find it interesting that as u say EB will ship the kit on a 3.75 and retain my warranty

Dalton at Evolution said the same thing so if you wouldn’t mind PM me who to speak to at EB about ordering Stage II with a 3.75 and still keeping my warranty

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[BlueCollarDaily]

As you may know I bought all my stuff from them and though Fred may have lied to me about what he would do to help, which was nothing when it come time to help..Dalton, had I listened to him would have had me squared away long ago....Dalton and Lund both knew exactly the problem and I am so grateful they did the build up to show us...Lund just said it again in a live stream I down loaded in case I ever need it.....that was to much PSI on 93 at 12 to 1 period....we both know the that's the root issue and I think they are gonna accept it too and accept that it doesnt need it to perform with their rivals....I mean at the end of the day applaud em they were trying to give us an 800hp car with warranty NO ONE does that but Mopar....however it's a bit much....I think the Predator being 9.5 to 1 forged , better block and still same psi as theirs at 12 to 1 might illustrate our point hehe...

Yes that's what is catching my eye is cooling....and let me say personally cooling on a PD is everything if AL.keeps having no trouble with the killer chiller I'm going that route since I'm invested and otherwise like the system....
It's like anything the new kid on the block improved in areas the others showed them to...but the EB unit is still very good at cooling for a base HE no fans ect...

 

[engineermike]

.....that was to much PSI on 93 at 12 to 1 period....we both know the that's the root issue and I think they are gonna accept it too and accept that it doesnt need it to perform with their rivals..

Oddly, if you figure out how much air each PD blower is trying to cram into the engine with the supplied pulley, the order is a bit counter-intuitive. From least to greatest: Whipple stage 1, Whipple stage 2, Edelbrock stage 1, roush phase 1&2, then Edelbrock stage 2. I don’t know where the vmp Loki kit comes in because I don’t know the pulley size yet.

......I think the Predator being 9.5 to 1 forged , better block and still same psi as theirs at 12 to 1 might illustrate our point hehe....

I’ve been beating this drum for some time and believe you are dead on. I believe 12/1 compression will never be factory-reliable unless boost is dropped to under 5 psi. Some things become unpredictable when running cylinder pressures and temps this close to the edge. Evidence is repeatable clean logs followed by broken pistons.

 

[Stymee]

Oddly, if you figure out how much air each PD blower is trying to cram into the engine with the supplied pulley, the order is a bit counter-intuitive. From least to greatest: Whipple stage 1, Whipple stage 2, Edelbrock stage 1, roush phase 1&2, then Edelbrock stage 2. I don’t know where the vmp Loki kit comes in because I don’t know the pulley size yet.



I’ve been beating this drum for some time and believe you are dead on. I believe 12/1 compression will never be factory-reliable unless boost is dropped to under 5 psi. Some things become unpredictable when running cylinder pressures and temps this close to the edge. Evidence is repeatable clean logs followed by broken pistons.

But you yourself I believe is running a whipple and that’s 9psi or 11psi

How’s your engine holding up?

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

Oddly, if you figure out how much air each PD blower is trying to cram into the engine with the supplied pulley, the order is a bit counter-intuitive. From least to greatest: Whipple stage 1, Whipple stage 2, Edelbrock stage 1, roush phase 1&2, then Edelbrock stage 2. I don’t know where the vmp Loki kit comes in because I don’t know the pulley size yet.



I’ve been beating this drum for some time and believe you are dead on. I believe 12/1 compression will never be factory-reliable unless boost is dropped to under 5 psi. Some things become unpredictable when running cylinder pressures and temps this close to the edge. Evidence is repeatable clean logs followed by broken pistons.

Dude said "evidence is repeatable clean logs followed by broken pistons"
Bahahaha damn no arguing that hahaha.....
When lambda, timing and temps are dead on and it pops 1 smash to the next no other changes, yes I'd say something is on the edge hehe....

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

I'm gonna use the VMP HE and call my shit the Tesseracting Out

 

[engineermike]

But you yourself I believe is running a whipple and that’s 9psi or 11psi

How’s your engine holding up?

I’m at 11 psi now, been as high as 13 and never an issue in 26k miles other than weirdness in some early-release cals. Mine was one of the first shipped for gen3’s, so I expected some cal revisions.

I’m just saying that there’s a reason no oem runs 12/1 compression with boost. All my logs look great and indicate the cal is good, but others with some broke pistons with presumably the same cal, so what gives? My semi-educated guess is that there is no room for anything to go the slightest bit wrong. I think it would be far more forgiving at 10.5/1 or 11/1. In fact, my old truck (2015, pfi) ran the 3.5 pulley (14 psi) that no one would dare run on a 2018 and it did it for 70k miles and counting, through 2 melted cats, and relentless beating on 93 octane...still alive. The 2015 truck was 10.5/1.

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

I’m at 11 psi now, been as high as 13 and never an issue in 26k miles other than weirdness in some early-release cals. Mine was one of the first shipped for gen3’s, so I expected some cal revisions.

I’m just saying that there’s a reason no oem runs 12/1 compression with boost. All my logs look great and indicate the cal is good, but others with some broke pistons with presumably the same cal, so what gives? My semi-educated guess is that there is no room for anything to go the slightest bit wrong. I think it would be far more forgiving at 10.5/1 or 11/1. In fact, my old truck (2015, pfi) ran the 3.5 pulley (14 psi) that no one would dare run on a 2018 and it did it for 70k miles and counting, through 2 melted cats, and relentless beating on 93 octane...still alive. The 2015 truck was 10.5/1.

Those words are burning me like sunlight to a vampire....I cant even run 7 days much less 70k without something blowing up often obscure requiring my obsession hehe

 

[brucelinc]

I tend to agree with Mike that 12:1 engines with high boost are approaching...and sometimes...crossing the danger threshold.

However, Ford and Roush are attached at the hip and one can walk into a Ford/Roush dealer and drive away with a warrantied 12:1 supercharged Mustang or F150. I don't know how much boost they generate but apparently Ford is not concerned about failures. I have never heard of an issue with a Roush that could be pinpointed to the compression/boost combination.

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

I tend to agree with Mike that 12:1 engines with high boost are approaching...and sometimes...crossing the danger threshold.

However, Ford and Roush are attached at the hip and one can walk into a Ford/Roush dealer and drive away with a warrantied 12:1 supercharged Mustang or F150. I don't know how much boost they generate but apparently Ford is not concerned about failures. I have never heard of an issue with a Roush that could be pinpointed to the compression/boost combination.

They were concerned enough when making 760hp in 2020 they chose 9.5 to 1 using the SAME rotor pack...literally the same...also port only......that tells me all I need to know....

I wouldn't even try to argue Roush failures, I don't hear much about any boosted gen 3 that blows is due to boost on 12 to 1 hehe...I assumed people went away from cause they heat soaked so bad so we just havent had as many examples to pull from. With their phase 2 kit finally here doesnt it up the cooling but HP along with it? Let's get some of these out for a while and see...

The line to me thats been told over and over again by everyone is 11psi...I noticed Loki stopped at 10.5psi.....

I would assume the DI is helping us get away with a little more, cant assert that though as Ford ditched it on their boosted platform....

There is ONE Roush dealer in my state I did consider them for the reasons you mentioned but everyone said they were slow and heat soaked quick...maybe slow is faster than blown....

 

[brucelinc]

They were concerned enough when making 760hp in 2020 they chose 9.5 to 1 using the SAME rotor pack...literally the same...also port only......that tells me all I need to know....

There is ONE Roush dealer in my state I did consider them for the reasons you mentioned but everyone said they were slow and heat soaked quick...maybe slow is faster than blown....

Good point but Ford's decisions tell me a little more. It tells me that Ford customers have 2 good choices for a street friendly, comfortable, nicely equipped performance vehicle. The Shelby design is better with the intercooler above the blower...no doubt about that. The lower compression is more likely to assure many thousand miles without engine failure. However, neither the Shelby or the Roush are really set up for drag racing. I have seen no evidence that either one will run 10s on stock tires with their stock tunes. Likewise, neither one with run LOW 10s without DRs AND custom tuning.

I guess it comes down to what you consider slow. Honestly, in my area with traffic and law enforcement, I don't know how anyone could use more on the street than either the Roush or Shelby delivers. I enjoy going to the strip but I am not interested in having a race car. I do not want to add the supporting mods necessary to safely harness 700 whp or more. The friendly competition, the camaraderie among participants and just the fun is what I look forward to. I was happy to run mid 12s with my Ecoboost Lincoln and equally happy to run mid 11s with my tuned Mustang. I am hoping and expecting to run high 10s with the Roush kit. That is where I will stop....both for vehicle reliability and for track classification purposes.

If I were serious about really going fast at the drag strip, my choice would be a Whipple, custom tuning, upgraded OPGs, upgraded halfshafts, big & littles, and removal of as much weight as possible.

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

I'm with ya on just about everything you said, that's why earlier I talked about still wishing I could take another PSI off maybe 2......cause like its laid out is quite viscous for the street...even more so on the 2650tvs vs 3.0l at same peak boost levels your looking at 70ftlbs or so more torque for same HP....

I'm basically the same way if stage 1 didnt have the slip issues and stayed like it was the day I would put a new belt on in hindsight that's all I needed. Perhaps 1 step smaller pulley in griptec with a custom tune once I was ready to step away from warranty. As you said we cant use it 99% of the time and I like you will drive into the track 3-4 a year...so far since nov 18 it's been zero cause car wont stay running long enough....

I worried about the heat soak everyone talks about with the Roush kit there was a guy here that had it ( well 1 town over ) and he said it's great 1 time but if it ever gets soaked it takes forever and that he would pick anything else if he had to do it again and there Edelbrock was touting the better cooling, which was his one gripe...so I got that...

I dont think I would have run 10s in stage one on warranty tune with my 3.15s, maybe you will with the Roush....I'd like to known for posterity.....I had talked to that dealer here and while the price was astronomical I ended spending that much anyway I just didn't want to drive 2.5hrs each way every time it needed service....they said they would have to perform all service including updates.

What I got is about perfect I'd like to pull 1 psi off maybe 2( add 1 degree up top)...its a little to much for the street for sure but should be fun on rare track days....

If I wanted to race I'd go Turbos if I couldn't afford that I already know what the F1A-94 can do it's a wicked centri I have one, the 10r80 would love it with a stall...I didn't want a bunch of fuss and noise though

 

[Stymee]

I'm with ya on just about everything you said, that's why earlier I talked about still wishing I could take another PSI off maybe 2......cause like its laid out is quite viscous for the street...even more so on the 2650tvs vs 3.0l at same peak boost levels your looking at 70ftlbs or so more torque for same HP....

I'm basically the same way if stage 1 didnt have the slip issues and stayed like it was the day I would put a new belt on in hindsight that's all I needed. Perhaps 1 step smaller pulley in griptec with a custom tune once I was ready to step away from warranty. As you said we cant use it 99% of the time and I like you will drive into the track 3-4 a year...so far since nov 18 it's been zero cause car wont stay running long enough....

I worried about the heat soak everyone talks about with the Roush kit there was a guy here that had it ( well 1 town over ) and he said it's great 1 time but if it ever gets soaked it takes forever and that he would pick anything else if he had to do it again and there Edelbrock was touting the better cooling, which was his one gripe...so I got that...

I dont think I would have run 10s in stage one on warranty tune with my 3.15s, maybe you will with the Roush....I'd like to known for posterity.....I had talked to that dealer here and while the price was astronomical I ended spending that much anyway I just didn't want to drive 2.5hrs each way every time it needed service....they said they would have to perform all service including updates.

What I got is about perfect I'd like to pull 1 psi off maybe 2( add 1 degree up top)...its a little to much for the street for sure but should be fun on rare track days....

If I wanted to race I'd go Turbos if I couldn't afford that I already know what the F1A-94 can do it's a wicked centri I have one, the 10r80 would love it with a stall...I didn't want a bunch of fuss and noise though

I dont buy it, cars heatsoak, and if u run then in soup they all heatsoak even worse, me I’ll race my car in Oct/Nov and March/April at Atco which is a fast track, if I need an ice tank to keep the Roush a bit cooler so be it but there is no way the Phase II won’t go 10.80’s at that power level, I want a street car like Bruce

I’m done with no cats, stripped out crap boxes just to run an ET

 

[brucelinc]

I will agree that the Roush design (smallish intercooler under the blower) is more prone to heatsoak than the others. The P2 kit is supposed to be better with the larger HE and tuning that has the fans and pump running more. The jury is out as to how much that helps. Initial reports from owners seem positive. I will find out this summer.

I am prepared to install an ice tank if necessary. According to reliable sources, just the addition of more water...without ice...makes a huge difference. We are talking about a 600-700 dollar mod and a few hours work. At resale time, the ice tank could be removed and sold.

I am well aware of the Roush shortcomings. When I factor in the good drivability, the price, the reputation for safety, the FORD name on it and the warranty, I can excuse some of its shortcomings.

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

I dont buy it, cars heatsoak, and if u run then in soup they all heatsoak even worse, me I’ll race my car in Oct/Nov and March/April at Atco which is a fast track, if I need an ice tank to keep the Roush a bit cooler so be it but there is no way the Phase II won’t go 10.80’s at that power level, I want a street car like Bruce

I’m don with no cats, stripped out crap boxes just to run an ET

Yea I thought about a rear mount ice tank and will use it if AL has any trouble with his killer chiller...half moon 7.5 gallon mounted right where it needs to be in the rear but again that would kill warranty on either system so I wasnt counting it at the time....
I also wasnt talking about the phase 2 it might eek into 10s I cant wait to find out....phase 2 just came out, I personally wasnt talking about it though I just still wouldnt buy that tech unless it was 100% for warranty. I guess Roush resale is better too however they were quoting me 12k with install on phase one end of 2018....no thanks....

The Edelbrock takes forever I mean forever to heat soak, I remember when Al was complaining about the whipple last year so I went and put my car in the same conditions and it didnt get remotely as high as his and easily cooled down the second I moved...I'd say cooling was above everyone for it's time and probably is surpassed by Loki a smidge....

One thing I would look at being as how ambitions have softened along with constant failures is I bet the Roush is easier to work on with its older design layout...as a lot of what makes pulling these newer style blowers harder is precisely having the more efficient bottom, blow up design rotors, then the HUGE plenum and intercooler brick.

On the press release I heard the phase 2 required some modifications in the HE area didnt bolt up ect, I can tell you this is that had of been around 14-15 months ago I'd have certainly looked at it HARD...so surveying the market today I could see people choosing it....

I cant wait to see what it does at the strip....

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