Sponsored

Why is Ford Risking Mustang to Take on Tesla?

IronG

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Threads
1
Messages
1,283
Reaction score
615
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
2019 Mustang GT PP2
Right. As Zack pointed out charging station and gas station would be subject to the same fate either having power or not. I do like that the EV could be a potential power source in this scenario though. I've seen a few EV truck offerings from smaller companies point out their power outlets for tools or cooking but my brain obviously didn't make the leap lol.

Big ass trucks have their place for sure, just not sure it's for daily commuting. But to each their own and I don't own 2 vehicles, why should we make the big ass truck owners do so?
Maybe maybe not. During Sandy, there were gas stations that had generators to power the pumps. Not all had them, but there were enough. The lines were long, but you could still get gas somewhere. Where I live it was out only 18hrs, but some places were out a week or more. No electricity, no charging. That will be another hurdle to overcome.
Sponsored

 

Deleted member 35786

Guest
Already expected the objection. Quote from my last post: So you don't then tell me I'm forgetting other considerations, even taking into account energy used to extract, refine and transport crude oil to gasoline at the point of use, THAT system is many times more efficient than the electric power system.

I also never said all EV's run on fossil fuel generated electricity. But they ALL run on electricity. What I said was: most electricity is generated by fuel combustion..... Unless there is some backtracking on hydroelectric and nuclear from the greenies, that fact is not going to change any time soon. The grid is not going to change to a major fraction supplied by wind and solar. Not in our lifetimes. You want to harness the power of the sun to generate electric power? Build more hydroelectric [dams]. We're tearing down the ones we already built. Because, Gaia or something. Not the Chinese. They're building not only dams, but about one new coal plant every day. We will eventually be tearing down photovoltaic, solar concentration and wind plant.

Nobody's jumping ship. They're still making gasoline and diesel vehicles, and will for a long time. They're hedging bets, which may well be a good idea. Why are OEM's investing in EV technology other than bet hedging? Tax subsidies. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Can-The-EV-Revolution-Survive-Without-Tax-Credits.html
Interesting statistic on our energy generation.
outlet-graph-large.jpg
 

nrc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Threads
7
Messages
623
Reaction score
527
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mustang EB PP
Do you have an EV? Have you actually dealt with the charge rates in person? I'm telling you it's not as big of an issue as you may think for the exact reasons I laid out in my previous post. Yes it takes 45 min to completely change, but you almost NEVER are going to be going from 0-100 on a daily commute or even on trips. Between being able to charge at home and potentially work, that fast charger would be used as a backup. And again, charge for five minutes, just like filling up a tank of gas, and get 50+ miles of range. Should be more than enough to get home where you can plug in and charge it up to 100.
It doesn't matter. Current market trends show that the vast majority of consumers will spend zero extra dollars to protect the planet from CO2 emissions.

They will also tolerate zero inconvenience relative to their current transportation choices. They buy vehicles much larger than they they need and drive them around empty purely to avoid any scenario where they may need more space or be slightly uncomfortable. Consumers pay for convenience. They will pay more money for more convenience. They will pay zero dollars for less convenience even in the face of imminent planetary doom.

Zero. No longer waits for fueling. No planning their daily routine or trips around charging locations that are out of the way or require them to walk an extra 100 feet. Zero.

Two hours of extra trip time may as well be two weeks.
 

Deleted member 35786

Guest
It doesn't matter. Current market trends show that the vast majority of consumers will spend zero extra dollars to protect the planet from CO2 emissions.

They will also tolerate zero inconvenience relative to their current transportation choices. They buy vehicles much larger than they they need and drive them around empty purely to avoid any scenario where they may need more space or be slightly uncomfortable. Consumers pay for convenience. They will pay more money for more convenience. They will pay zero dollars for less convenience even in the face of imminent planetary doom.

Zero. No longer waits for fueling. No planning their daily routine or trips around charging locations that are out of the way or require them to walk an extra 100 feet. Zero.

Two hours of extra trip time may as well be two weeks.
^^ Very well said.. And that will be our demise unfortunately.
 

Sivi70980

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
2,501
Reaction score
4,179
Location
Lacey, Washington
First Name
Mark
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ruby Red GT PP1 M6
It doesn't matter. Current market trends show that the vast majority of consumers will spend zero extra dollars to protect the planet from CO2 emissions.

They will also tolerate zero inconvenience relative to their current transportation choices. They buy vehicles much larger than they they need and drive them around empty purely to avoid any scenario where they may need more space or be slightly uncomfortable. Consumers pay for convenience. They will pay more money for more convenience. They will pay zero dollars for less convenience even in the face of imminent planetary doom.

Zero. No longer waits for fueling. No planning their daily routine or trips around charging locations that are out of the way or require them to walk an extra 100 feet. Zero.

Two hours of extra trip time may as well be two weeks.
I agree. However, most of the general populace does what they're told and will change if options are taken away. When only EV's are available, we'll all own one to get to work and pay our taxes. Yeah we'll be pissed about it but we all gotta eat. I travel a lot for work. Seats on planes are getting smaller and smaller but there isn't anything I can do about it. My options are to deal with it or get another job that doesn't put me on a plane. My dog eats what I put in his bowl. He doesn't know what coke or pizza is. As time goes by and generations die off, people will forget what we used to do to get around. I mean, I hear stories about how people used to pay attention to their surroundings while doing that archaic thing called walking...
 

Sponsored

bluestang50

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Threads
6
Messages
289
Reaction score
135
Location
GA
Vehicle(s)
2017 F150, 2020 Explorer ST, 1990 Mustang GT turbo
It doesn't matter. Current market trends show that the vast majority of consumers will spend zero extra dollars to protect the planet from CO2 emissions.
The added cost is more than offset by the reduction in fuel and maintenance costs. My current daily driver costs me over $250 a month in gas. The electric cost for those same trips is just over $30.

No planning their daily routine or trips around charging locations that are out of the way or require them to walk an extra 100 feet. Zero.
This where your entire argument is thrown out the window. What percentage of people have a daily commute over 250 miles......?

Here is a list of the 10 longest average daily commutes by city.

#1 New York City NY 34.7
#2 Long Island NY 33.3
#3 Washington DC 32.8
#4 Newark NJ 31.1
#5 Chicago IL 30.8
#6 Boston MA 30.4
#7 Oakland CA 29.9
#8 Riverside-San Bernardino CA 29.8
#9 Baltimore MD 29.4
#10 Atlanta GA 29.2

So it appears for the vast majority of people there would be ZERO, as you like to say, affect on their daily commutes.
 

Sivi70980

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
2,501
Reaction score
4,179
Location
Lacey, Washington
First Name
Mark
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ruby Red GT PP1 M6
The added cost is more than offset by the reduction in fuel and maintenance costs. My current daily driver costs me over $250 a month in gas. The electric cost for those same trips is just over $30.



This where your entire argument is thrown out the window. What percentage of people have a daily commute over 250 miles......?

Here is a list of the 10 longest average daily commutes by city.

#1 New York City NY 34.7
#2 Long Island NY 33.3
#3 Washington DC 32.8
#4 Newark NJ 31.1
#5 Chicago IL 30.8
#6 Boston MA 30.4
#7 Oakland CA 29.9
#8 Riverside-San Bernardino CA 29.8
#9 Baltimore MD 29.4
#10 Atlanta GA 29.2

So it appears for the vast majority of people there would be ZERO, as you like to say, affect on their daily commutes.
So in my mind (again no actual research done here) if everyone went to electric today, your $30 estimate turns into much more, maybe even more than your gas cost now. And that's only if the current power grid can hold? Again, no research so I have no idea what our power grids look like, I just know my work building is lit up right now lol. But seeds of doubt have been planted from other people's concerns. Really though, if I'm an average guy (I like to think I am) working a warehouse job, how do I even begin to speculate what the effects of 100% EV will look like? I do know very well how supply/demand works though. If everything was now reliant on unicorn farts to power our transportation, the price of those farts would have a death grip of control over them by whoever can grab the supply fastest and then price it as high as they can to make the most out of it. But....like the EV trend now, if only a small percentage of people need those unicorn farts, they will remain pretty cheap because the puppet masters don't see a big net gain there yet. I mean, gas was crazy cheaper when less people used it. I don't know what our reserves look like or if anything anyone says about them is true because I don't work there. I believe every chance the government has, they push, misdirect, lie, and cheat every cent they can get out of every one of us and it's been engineered for us to not even be able to fight back against it. I'll stop here because I think my rant is going in a direction that belongs on a different forum lol.
 

zackmd1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Threads
138
Messages
5,137
Reaction score
2,665
Location
Maryland
First Name
Zack
Vehicle(s)
1970 Mustang, 1965 AC Cobra, 2023 Ford Bronco 2Dr
So in my mind (again no actual research done here) if everyone went to electric today, your $30 estimate turns into much more, maybe even more than your gas cost now. And that's only if the current power grid can hold? Again, no research so I have no idea what our power grids look like, I just know my work building is lit up right now lol. But seeds of doubt have been planted from other people's concerns. Really though, if I'm an average guy (I like to think I am) working a warehouse job, how do I even begin to speculate what the effects of 100% EV will look like? I do know very well how supply/demand works though. If everything was now reliant on unicorn farts to power our transportation, the price of those farts would have a death grip of control over them by whoever can grab the supply fastest and then price it as high as they can to make the most out of it. But....like the EV trend now, if only a small percentage of people need those unicorn farts, they will remain pretty cheap because the puppet masters don't see a big net gain there yet. I mean, gas was crazy cheaper when less people used it. I don't know what our reserves look like or if anything anyone says about them is true because I don't work there. I believe every chance the government has, they push, misdirect, lie, and cheat every cent they can get out of every one of us and it's been engineered for us to not even be able to fight back against it. I'll stop here because I think my rant is going in a direction that belongs on a different forum lol.
I doubt electricity will get as high as gas.

Your argument is true if everyone switched overnight. That's not the case if it takes 20-30 years to have a complete changeover. The grid will/should keep up with demand. Add in home solar and storage and you can see how costs shouldn't rise too high and the grid should be able to handle it.
 

Sponsored

bluestang50

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Threads
6
Messages
289
Reaction score
135
Location
GA
Vehicle(s)
2017 F150, 2020 Explorer ST, 1990 Mustang GT turbo
I doubt electricity will get as high as gas.

Your argument is true if everyone switched overnight. That's not the case if it takes 20-30 years to have a complete changeover. The grid will/should keep up with demand. Add in home solar and storage and you can see how costs shouldn't rise too high and the grid should be able to handle it.
Exactly. Not to mention during that time frame the technology will improve drastically. In the mean time we need to focus more on nuclear. Forget solar and wind at current technology levels relative to those fields. Maybe in the future but the main power grid increases should currently be nuclear.
 
OP
OP
Bikeman315

Bikeman315

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Threads
520
Messages
15,285
Reaction score
19,349
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC
First Name
Ira
Vehicle(s)
2019 Mustang GT/CS, 2021 Volvo XC60
I doubt electricity will get as high as gas.
Here is an interesting read for everyone.
https://www.publicpower.org/system/files/documents/2019 (2018 data) Retail Electric Rates_final.pdf

One of my biggest pet peeves is the fluctuation in the cost of gas. Can you imagine is the cost of a gallon of milk went from $1 to $10 back to $3 and then settled at $6. Well that's what gas does. And for no particular reason. If you believe in the seasonal BS or the change in the price of crude I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Yes these things do in a small way affect the price at the pump but more than likely it is due to the refineries adjusting production. Lower production gas goes up. Increase production gas goes down. Gas does up before Holiday's, why. Why is there a difference of $0.50 in the price of regular vs premium? Why are the big oil companies raking in billions in profit and claiming they're hurting.

I have a few reasons for wanting an EV and one of them it to get out from under the thumb of the big oil companies. We are getting screwed a hell of a lot more them by them than whatever Ford does to us.
 
Last edited:

Sivi70980

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
2,501
Reaction score
4,179
Location
Lacey, Washington
First Name
Mark
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ruby Red GT PP1 M6
I read your post, and all I got out of it was, "gas was crazy cheaper when less people used it". Bring on the EVs! They'll make my gas cheaper! E85 and race gas for everyone!
Unfortunately gas is one of those things that has proven to stay expensive now matter how our usage fluctuates. I dare say that the prices would go up as we get more EV's because they'll need to maintain their billion dollar bonuses every year. I'm also willing to bet electricity will go up in the same way gas has over the years simply because "they" will have a reason for it to. I wont be surprised at all if the near future looks like more expensive gas AND more expensive electricity. Those of us without an EV will simply be priced out of the ICE market due to powering our homes and trying to afford dinosaur juice.
 

Sivi70980

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
2,501
Reaction score
4,179
Location
Lacey, Washington
First Name
Mark
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ruby Red GT PP1 M6
I doubt electricity will get as high as gas.

Your argument is true if everyone switched overnight. That's not the case if it takes 20-30 years to have a complete changeover. The grid will/should keep up with demand. Add in home solar and storage and you can see how costs shouldn't rise too high and the grid should be able to handle it.
Exactly, nothing happens overnight. I think I just wanted to sound like I knew what I was talking about for a sec...and to type "unicorn farts" a few times. Ultimately, I just hope to be able to afford and enjoy driving whatever my next vehicle might be when the time comes. Like @Bikeman315 solar sounds cool to me but mainly because sci fi movies/shows.
Sponsored

 
 




Top