'18 GT Intake on a GT350?

[MasterCylinder]

With the kind of results 15-17 GT owners have been getting with the GT350 on the GT350 manifold and the 18 GT manifold it got me wondering. Has anyone thought about attempting to see if there would be any potential gains from putting an '18 manifold?

In theory it should be able to keep up around 8200 rpm and maybe get some extra torque out of it. I'm just spit balling here.

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[nastang87xx]

TECHNICALLY, as well as proven, it does not keep up all the way to 8200. I'll keep my GT350 intake on my GT350 that was designed for the GT350 which takes into consideration heads, cams, lifters, and the throttle body. This whole concept of mix and matching of intakes has honestly gotten out of control. Besides typical bolt ons such as intake, ported throttle body, and headers. The only way the GT350 is getting more is either a Cobra Jet intake or cams and head work. L&M Engines has been waiting since February for cam cores to be delivered for a specialized GT350 grind but the supplier hasn't delivered. Frankenstein Engine Dynamics has a CNC program for porting and polishing the GT350 heads for about $1500 and gives about 400cc on the intake side. They have rolled about 30RWHP more with those heads with no loss to low end, an elimination of the torque dip at 2700 RPM, a flatter but not as peaky mid range (think of the torque "loss" of a Boss 302 vs an '11 - 14 GT or a Mercedes SLS vs and SLS Black Series) and a better carrying top end. The hard part of lots of RPM is ensuring the engine doesn't become too peak happy as the low end, mid range, and top end start to become silos based on the engine profile's top end.

 

[A_Bau3]

TECHNICALLY, as well as proven, it does not keep up all the way to 8200. I'll keep my GT350 intake on my GT350 that was designed for the GT350 which takes into consideration heads, cams, lifters, and the throttle body. This whole concept of mix and matching of intakes has honestly gotten out of control. Besides typical bolt ons such as intake, ported throttle body, and headers. The only way the GT350 is getting more is either a Cobra Jet intake or cams and head work. L&M Engines has been waiting since February for cam cores to be delivered for a specialized GT350 grind but the supplier hasn't delivered. Frankenstein Engine Dynamics has a CNC program for porting and polishing the GT350 heads for about $1500 and gives about 400cc on the intake side. They have rolled about 30RWHP more with those heads with no loss to low end, an elimination of the torque dip at 2700 RPM, a flatter but not as peaky mid range (think of the torque "loss" of a Boss 302 vs an '11 - 14 GT or a Mercedes SLS vs and SLS Black Series) and a better carrying top end. The hard part of lots of RPM is ensuring the engine doesn't become too peak happy as the low end, mid range, and top end start to become silos based on the engine profile's top end.

@nastang87xx You still planning on getting your heads done by FED this winter?

 

[nastang87xx]

@nastang87xx You still planning on getting your heads done by FED this winter?

I'm struggling with finding a tuner around me that I feel comfortable with. It's not a lack of tuners it's this conversation dynamic with said tuners that concerns me: "Well the heads are already ported and polished from the factory, why would you want to do that?" That kills the momentum right then and there. While that is true about the factory work, the numbers and techniques speak for themselves.

Also, just in my situation of where and how I live (downtown area, apartments) I'm also running into some logistics issues if I want to do a winter job. The most logical would find a shop to tear down the engine and send the heads to FED. But that's a lot of money to get the car there, tear down, have the car sit, reinstall the heads, have it tuned, and then transport the car to its resting place in the winter. I'm thinking if this ever happened this would be an early spring type of thing where I could still drive the car on the streets for transportation reasons. I don't want the car to be sitting around for those types of reasons. I understand it's a project but still, not my idea of well utilized time.

 

[65sohc]

With the kind of results 15-17 GT owners have been getting with the GT350 on the GT350 manifold and the 18 GT manifold it got me wondering. Has anyone thought about attempting to see if there would be any potential gains from putting an '18 manifold?

In theory it should be able to keep up around 8200 rpm and maybe get some extra torque out of it. I'm just spit balling here.

If you look at the shootout that VMP did on a Coyote you'll find that the GT350 manifold made exactly the same horsepower as a stock 2018 manifold and a bit more torque. A ported '18 manifold was a little better. One might conclude that a ported GT350 manifold might respond similarly.

 

[A_Bau3]

I'm struggling with finding a tuner around me that I feel comfortable with. It's not a lack of tuners it's this conversation dynamic with said tuners that concerns me: "Well the heads are already ported and polished from the factory, why would you want to do that?" That kills the momentum right then and there. While that is true about the factory work, the numbers and techniques speak for themselves.

Also, just in my situation of where and how I live (downtown area, apartments) I'm also running into some logistics issues if I want to do a winter job. The most logical would find a shop to tear down the engine and send the heads to FED. But that's a lot of money to get the car there, tear down, have the car sit, reinstall the heads, have it tuned, and then transport the car to its resting place in the winter. I'm thinking if this ever happened this would be an early spring type of thing where I could still drive the car on the streets for transportation reasons. I don't want the car to be sitting around for those types of reasons. I understand it's a project but still, not my idea of well utilized time.

I understand exactly what you’re saying, it’s hard to have everything line up correctly and I would need the assurance knowing my car was done right too. I moved out to the country w/ a 2 car garage here in Maryland, and that’s 90% because of the car lmao (Impatiently waiting for 2019’s to drop). L&M Engines isn’t too far from me but I don’t foresee myself doing any motor mods until the warranty is up. And by then I’ll be stationed somewhere else.

Also, I’m surprised FED hasn’t really promoted the heads much. I don’t think many people even know about it yet.

 

[nastang87xx]

If you look at the shootout that VMP did on a Coyote you'll find that the GT350 manifold made exactly the same horsepower as a stock 2018 manifold and a bit more torque. A ported '18 manifold was a little better. One might conclude that a ported GT350 manifold might respond similarly.

Look again at the RPM ranges too though. The '18 manifold starts to dip HARD right at the mid 7000's range, at least on that particular Coyote. I would not want that to happen to my Voodoo engine.

 

[08fordgt]

do they have a dyno chart showing the gains from theses heads?

 

[Demonic]

do they have a dyno chart showing the gains from theses heads?

I asked them recently and they said they'd have to try to find it but it was tricky since the original owner who had the work done sold the car to someone else.

 

[A_Bau3]

do they have a dyno chart showing the gains from theses heads?

Here it is, they said a HUB dyno is consistently 10% lower vs traditional dynos keep in mind.

 

[nastang87xx]

Big juicy heads (lol...) CAN carry an inadequate cam shaft set and I believe that's what is happening with FED's monster ports. HOWEVER, I feel like it would partially be inappropriate to not address cam shafts as well when tearing down the top end. Conversation off the public forums that I had:



"It's a big jump in intake flow. FED specs the heads at 405 CFM intake side and usually hit about 390 or higher on an actual Flowbench 600. The mill they sent me on paper just happened to flow at 392 CFM. [...] Unfortunately the results can be a little nerve wrecking because they were using a hub based dyno which can be a little harder to interpret but the numbers are the numbers.

As far as me going through with this, I may also end up waiting, granted who knows how long that would be, to see if a set of cams will ever be offered too whether it be L&M Engines or Comp, or Livernois, or whoever. If the top end is being torn down, might as well address everything appropriately. But time and results will tell. I really wish a company could get a set of cams going and if anything show what the results are, good or bad. Theoretically, this engine needs more cam duration."

 

[nastang87xx]

I'll make a torque curve graph as well using that horsepower graph. I genuinely don't know what it'l look like so I'm kinda excited to generate this.

 

[nastang87xx]

I did my best to fill in some of the blanks. Those are 375 RPM increments. I used Power BI to make a line chart that would represent the torque curve based on the data we have. IF, and if, this is accurate, that's a gorgeous torque curve. My guess based on some statistical math based on the rate of torque drop, peak horsepower at 8200 RPM would be 538 horsepower.

Yes, I know I'm already off a tick because peak torque was 369 and not 375 but again, did my best to represent as much as possible within reason. Also, the 525 horsepower at 7810 IS accurate. It was posted in FE Dynamic's YouTube.

 

[A_Bau3]

I did my best to fill in some of the blanks. Those are 375 RPM increments. I used Power BI to make a line chart that would represent the torque curve based on the data we have. IF, and if, this is accurate, that's a gorgeous torque curve. My guess based on some statistical math based on the rate of torque drop, peak horsepower at 8200 RPM would be 538 horsepower.

Yes, I know I'm already off a tick because peak torque was 369 and not 375 but again, did my best to represent as much as possible within reason. Also, the 525 horsepower at 7810 IS accurate. It was posted in FE Dynamic's YouTube.

That indeed is a gorgeous curve, maybe it could work well without cams? Regardless if it were paired with cams and running some corn, this voodoo will be pushing near 600rwhp

 

[nastang87xx]

Well getting back to the point of the intake...if we are to use this graph as a theoretical baseline, the low end is still incredibly deficient. I've heard of one or two people saying they got some low end back with a ported throttle body, albeit not much but if it means 15 lb ft down low, with those types of numbers, I'd probably consider it. It's all about that balancing act. I still would not want a Gen 3 Coyote intake manifold on my GT350 regardless.

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