Track Days Per Set of Tires - Michelin PS4S

[Eritas]

My understanding from both tire testers and others is that for camber limited cars overall tire expense may be reduced by using Extreme Performance Tires for track and maybe even street because they are less sensitive to camber. Examples here: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/perfCat.jsp?perf=EP.

PS4S are one of, if not, the best Max Performance Tires but my sources say that they like the other Max Performance tires need more camber to reduce outer edge wear. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/perfCat.jsp?perf=MP

A second set of wheels and tires for track or autocross use can easily be more cost effective and absolutely more "satisfying" than trying to nurse one set of more street oriented tires through a track event because you need it for street use. Note that you may have to use a little "racer's math" to make the cost effective part work. :-)

It depends. A tire with more grip = more body roll = more outer shoulder wear.

Tire compound and construction can vary greatly, and some can distribute the load across the tire better than others. It's not as simple as just stiffer sidewalls, but that's an easy way to understand it. A soft sidewall tire could roll over and wear the shoulder out faster than one with a stiffer sidewall. Again it's more complex than that.

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[mikeD4V]

@mikeD4V Yep that was me in the white 2018 GT at FATT in July. Are you Miguel? You were there with LJ?

I’m doing a HPDRE at Dominion this Sunday or I would be coming to the FATT tomorrow. Have fun man!

Will you be at the Sept FATT?

Yea, that's me. Need to sort a few things out to make the Sept FATT but hoping to be there. How was Dominion? Would also like to make it down to Dominion and VIR this year.

I have pics/vid clips of you from that day, including one passing a GT350 coming out of turn 10. PM me your email and I'll send them over.

FATT - July by MikeD, on Flickr

 

[SgdriskillGT]

Yea, that's me. Need to sort a few things out to make the Sept FATT but hoping to be there. How was Dominion? Would also like to make it down to Dominion and VIR this year.

I have pics/vid clips of you from that day, including one passing a GT350 coming out of turn 10. PM me your email and I'll send them over.

FATT - July by MikeD, on Flickr

Yea would be awesome to have some pics, I'll PM you my email. Thanks!

Dominion was good, I cut 2 seconds off my best lap time previously there. I like Summit Main better, but I'll be back to Dominion again. I'm going down for 2 days at VIR this weekend (sat/sun), you should sign up if you're free.

I should be at the Sept. FATT. I'm also signed up for 2 days at Shenendoah that weekend...will be a lot of fun.

 

[SgdriskillGT]

I'm hoping to get 10-12 out of them and then keep them as wet/street tires. 5 days on my MPS4S so far and the fronts wear significantly on the outside. The rest of the tire looks fine and temps are consistent across the tread after sessions. Currently maxed out front camber with -1.8. Going to try adding more front bar, more neg camber (-2.5), and continue to rotate them to see if they will last the rest of the year. Track again on Friday so I'll be able to see if more front bar helps. After that I'll do bolts and/or plates to get more front camber.

@SgdriskillGT were you the white 2018 GT at FATT in July?

@mikeD4V Are you getting -2.5 deg camber without plates? I just got 19x11 square wheels and will be using 305 tires with spacers up front, so I want to go 2.5 deg camber for the track. I've read you can't get there by aligning stock suspension, although the GT PP2 has a 1.5 +/- .75 deg spec for the track.

@NightmareMoon Would be great to get you opinion too

If i have to get camber plates, anyone have ones they specifically like?

 

[NightmareMoon]

Camber is not adjustable from the factory, so you won't get anywhere near 2.5 without plates, camber bolts, or slotting the strut to spindle bolt holes. I don't recommend slotting the struts, cause they tend to slip, its just not as secure.

As for plates, I don't have any yet (later this year) but I've heard good things about Vorshlag (very expensive, but very good), or Maximum Motorsports (good option at very reasonable prices), and have also heard people like the Steeda ones.

Before you get plates, make sure you know which direction you're going for springs or coilovers, so you can get some that will be compatible.

 

[SgdriskillGT]

Camber is not adjustable from the factory, so you won't get anywhere near 2.5 without plates, camber bolts, or slotting the strut to spindle bolt holes. I don't recommend slotting the struts, cause they tend to slip, its just not as secure.

As for plates, I don't have any yet (later this year) but I've heard good things about Vorshlag (very expensive, but very good), or Maximum Motorsports (good option at very reasonable prices), and have also heard people like the Steeda ones.

Before you get plates, make sure you know which direction you're going for springs or coilovers, so you can get some that will be compatible.

Got ya. I went with Steeda camber plates bc they go to -2.8 deg camber which is more than all the others I found. Don’t need to change caster so they’re less complicated. And they were a little less expensive.

Thanks!

 

[JohnD]

I'd stay away from MM if I had to do it over again, I had a stud snap at way less than their recommended torque and then they proceeded to blame my torque wrench. There's many people have had this problem from what I've seen on other more track focused forums. Plus I could only get -1.8 on stock suspension, -2.5 on FR3 track kit.

 

[Norm Peterson]

How many track days are people getting out of their Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires before they're spent?

I'm 3 track days in on my first set of these tires with my 2018 GT PP1 (four 20-30 min sessions per track day) 5K miles on the tires overall. All tires are between 7/32 and 8/32 tread depth left. I think these tires start with 9.5/32 tread. Some simple math estimates I'll get 8-9 track days per set of these tires.
-assume changing tires at 4/32 = 5.5/32 usable tread over tires lifetime
-0.67/32 tread wear per track day so far
-5.5/0.67 = 8.25 track days per set of tires

Just to go back to the beginning for a moment - for track day count purposes I'd be willing to go all the way down to 2/32" as long as the shoulder condition was still acceptable and you weren't planning on doing the last couple of track dates in the rain. That would put the projected number of track days out to 11 and change. Could be more if wear rates drop as tread blocks stiffen due to being of shorter height, might be less for any number of reasons (driving harder?). :dunno:, ten might be a good number to go with.

I'm sure that tire size to wheel width fitment does play a part, with mounting any given tires on wheels at or near max-recommended being more durable than when mounted on measuring width or narrower.


Norm

 

[mikeD4V]

@SgdriskillGT I think it was already answered but max neg camber I could get from stock parts, without slotting, is -1.8. Bought some steeda plates to get more.

 

[SgdriskillGT]

@SgdriskillGT I think it was already answered but max neg camber I could get from stock parts, without slotting, is -1.8. Bought some steeda plates to get more.

@SgdriskillGT I think it was already answered but max neg camber I could get from stock parts, without slotting, is -1.8. Bought some steeda plates to get more.

Same here, got to -2.4 both sides

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