Sponsored

July 2017 Mustang Sales

TomcatDriver

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2017
Threads
9
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
469
Location
Mojave Desert
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT350 Magnetic w/black stripes
Automotive tech improvements are nothing like that of a cell phone.
I respectfully disagree. Tech improvements are similar regardless of industry. The details of what that tech is may vary, but the upgrade path is the same. New cutting edge features turn into standard features after a few product cycles. Cell phones are moving faster for a number of reasons, but the process is the same. Electronics improvements have a very valid comparison. Features like Android Auto/Car Play or even basic bluetooth integration were premium "Technology Package" add ons just a few years ago.

And maybe you hit on something. Because mechanical improvements are slower to change than microprocessors perhaps automakers "product cycle" mindset is slower. New manufacturing techniques or metallurgy is introduced slowly over years, and they treat their electronics the same way. I think this is a mistake and frustrates consumers. If I can go buy a beautiful 8" tablet for under $200 it makes an 8" head unit for $2000 seem pretty overpriced.
 

Ebm

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2016
Threads
66
Messages
3,051
Reaction score
1,340
Location
North Carolina
First Name
Guy
Vehicle(s)
'14 GT
.

I respectfully disagree. Tech improvements are similar regardless of industry. The details of what that tech is may vary, but the upgrade path is the same. New cutting edge features turn into standard features after a few product cycles. Cell phones are moving faster for a number of reasons, but the process is the same. Electronics improvements have a very valid comparison. Features like Android Auto/Car Play or even basic bluetooth integration were premium "Technology Package" add ons just a few years ago.

And maybe you hit on something. Because mechanical improvements are slower to change than microprocessors perhaps automakers "product cycle" mindset is slower. New manufacturing techniques or metallurgy is introduced slowly over years, and they treat their electronics the same way. I think this is a mistake and frustrates consumers. If I can go buy a beautiful 8" tablet for under $200 it makes an 8" head unit for $2000 seem pretty overpriced.
One thing is for sure. Improvements equals $$$$. The Mustang is adding features for the '18. So are new smartphones. The Samsung Note 8 coming out will be over a grand. The iPhone will follow with a price over a grand. Who would have thought smartphones would eclipse a grand this soon. Man. Everything is so expensive these days.
 

TomcatDriver

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2017
Threads
9
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
469
Location
Mojave Desert
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT350 Magnetic w/black stripes
One thing is for sure. Improvements equals $$$$. The Mustang is adding features for the '18. So are new smartphones. The Samsung Note 8 coming out will be over a grand. The iPhone will follow with a price over a grand. Who would have thought smartphones would eclipse a grand this soon. Man. Everything is so expensive these days.
And the exact same features you can find in a Note 8 will be available in a MOTO G or a One Plus X next year for under $500. I just bought a phone that MSRPed over $700 less than a year ago for $350. Improvements don't always cost money. I know, crazy right, but true. An in-dash CD player cost more in 1990's than a 7" LCD Car-Play head unit in 2017. Heck, trunk mounted CD changers were a multi-thousand dollar option in the early 2000's.
 

bluebeastsrt

Oh boy
Joined
May 10, 2015
Threads
79
Messages
7,552
Reaction score
7,027
Location
New Jersey
First Name
BigD
Vehicle(s)
Ruby red 2019 GT Premium.
37 is chum change. I spent more than that on a car I only drag race.:shrug:
 

Sponsored

millhouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2016
Threads
18
Messages
2,652
Reaction score
1,216
Location
Simpsonville SC
Vehicle(s)
2016 Ruby Red GT PP
I respectfully disagree. Tech improvements are similar regardless of industry. The details of what that tech is may vary, but the upgrade path is the same. New cutting edge features turn into standard features after a few product cycles. Cell phones are moving faster for a number of reasons, but the process is the same. Electronics improvements have a very valid comparison. Features like Android Auto/Car Play or even basic bluetooth integration were premium "Technology Package" add ons just a few years ago.

And maybe you hit on something. Because mechanical improvements are slower to change than microprocessors perhaps automakers "product cycle" mindset is slower. New manufacturing techniques or metallurgy is introduced slowly over years, and they treat their electronics the same way. I think this is a mistake and frustrates consumers. If I can go buy a beautiful 8" tablet for under $200 it makes an 8" head unit for $2000 seem pretty overpriced.
Leave that $200 tablet in a car during the summer for an hour and let me know how it works when the temperature is 140 degrees F. Likewise, leave it in during a Canadian winter with sub zero temperatures.

Hell, our phones shut down if they are left outside in the sunlight for too long.

The auto industry has to protect for a much broader range of environmental conditions. Temperature and humidity wreak havoc on electronics.
 

TomcatDriver

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2017
Threads
9
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
469
Location
Mojave Desert
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT350 Magnetic w/black stripes
Leave that $200 tablet in a car during the summer for an hour and let me know how it works when the temperature is 140 degrees F. Likewise, leave it in during a Canadian winter with sub zero temperatures.

Hell, our phones shut down if they are left outside in the sunlight for too long.

The auto industry has to protect for a much broader range of environmental conditions. Temperature and humidity wreak havoc on electronics.
My point was the progress of the technology, not the specifics regarding the durability of off the shelf tablets, but if we really need to get this far into the weeds to prove a point, go on Crutchfield and see how many Pioneer, Sony, Kenwood head units available under $500, almost all of which are superior to OEM offerings.
 

millhouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2016
Threads
18
Messages
2,652
Reaction score
1,216
Location
Simpsonville SC
Vehicle(s)
2016 Ruby Red GT PP
My point was the progress of the technology, not the specifics regarding the durability of off the shelf tablets, but if we really need to get this far into the weeds to prove a point, go on Crutchfield and see how many Pioneer, Sony, Kenwood head units available under $500, almost all of which are superior to OEM offerings.
And many of those head units have had overheating issues. OEMs are held to a different standard than aftermarkets, they always have and always will. When someone bitches that their $200 stereo is broken after 2 years they throw it in the trash. When an OEM head unit breaks after 2 years, people lose their damn minds and take it back for warranty repair.

Any large corporation that leases computers will see the same type of rigors placed on hardware. Commercial grade hard drives, graphics cards etc. are often far more expensive and far smaller/slower than what is offered to consumers. Those components have been tested and proven to be able to handle commercial environments. Yes, they are inferior in regards to performance, but warranty and down time costs money.

It's not that automakers don't want to incorporate the latest tech, it's that they can't afford to risk that which has not yet been tested.

On a side note, I have never had an aftermarket head unit offer anywhere near the static free FM stereo quality than OEM units.
 

TomcatDriver

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2017
Threads
9
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
469
Location
Mojave Desert
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT350 Magnetic w/black stripes
And many of those head units have had overheating issues. OEMs are held to a different standard than aftermarkets, they always have and always will. When someone bitches that their $200 stereo is broken after 2 years they throw it in the trash. When an OEM head unit breaks after 2 years, people lose their damn minds and take it back for warranty repair.

Any large corporation that leases computers will see the same type of rigors placed on hardware. Commercial grade hard drives, graphics cards etc. are often far more expensive and far smaller/slower than what is offered to consumers. Those components have been tested and proven to be able to handle commercial environments. Yes, they are inferior in regards to performance, but warranty and down time costs money.

It's not that automakers don't want to incorporate the latest tech, it's that they can't afford to risk that which has not yet been tested.

On a side note, I have never had an aftermarket head unit offer anywhere near the static free FM stereo quality than OEM units.
I threw a cheap Pioneer (well, cheap for AA/Carplay NEX 4200) unit in a 2006 Honda last year. I live in the middle of the desert with OAT well into the 100-teens and internal car temps probably 150+. It's doing just fine (I did melt a cell phone last week though). I guar-un-tee that SYNC3 costs Ford less than $500 more than the base radio. I would be surprised if it cost $100 more. But again, we are quibbling about specifics, which was not the point.

Some automakers (Ford is certainly not alone) charge what I believe to be preposterous premiums for things that should be standard equipment, particularly on higher end vehicles. The German makers are the worst, charging thousands for "Tech Packages" that only match what is available as standard equipment on your average Korean/Japanese car. One would think that if you were buying even a base model premium vehicle that it would come with above average accouterments.
 

Sponsored

thePill

Camaro5's Most Wanted
Joined
Aug 13, 2012
Threads
37
Messages
6,561
Reaction score
699
Location
Pittsburgh
Vehicle(s)
S550
I may be talking through my hat here but I suspect that a large portion of the rear drive sports coupes in rental fleets would be convertibles. That leaves out the Challenger with no convertible option and the Camaro with little trunk space for luggage with the roof down. The visibility issues with the Camaro would also likely be a factor in fleet buying decisions. Ford should be in a very favorable negotiating position with Mustang prices for fleets.
That is absolutely correct, based on Rental inventory, between 25% and 40% of the S550 Fleet could be Convertible specific orders, depending on region. The S550 beat everything to market and at the time Rental companies were downsizing the 2 door, RWD selection around the same time (2014). Quite frankly, there isn't as big of a Fleet/Rental pie to share this gen. I feel the Camaro was on the losing end the most. Even the Mustangs rental sales have gone from 25% in 2014 to 18% in 2015-2016. Each Mustang is 3-5% more expensive so, the profit is probably close overall. A 7% decrease in Fleet/Rental Sales but a 3-5% increase in MSRP. We would need specific numbers but assume it is currently 18% or 30-40,000 a year.

Appearently, overseas sales will match the S550's Fleet/Rental numbers, around 18-20%. Projected to potentially increase in 2017 to nearly 30% already... that is nearly 40,000 foreign Mustang sales a year.

The Camaro has a long, uphill battle ahead. NASCAR may help and the MSRP refigure could help too. I have to wonder though, if a cheaper price was possible before, we would have already seen a cheaper Camaro. Not really much they can do except maybe put the weight back in... then again, they just spent X amount of dollars for a 2019-'20 refresh, that MSRP will need to come up about 3% after that. Are they not going to answer the 460hp? No legitimate answer to the GT350 or defense against a GT500?

With the ATS/CTS included, Lansing is in jeopardy. Not much the Camaro can do except maybe hit a homer in with the refresh. It is summer and they can't move 5000 cars in a month. An LT1 equipped 5th Gen would have sold better...
 

thePill

Camaro5's Most Wanted
Joined
Aug 13, 2012
Threads
37
Messages
6,561
Reaction score
699
Location
Pittsburgh
Vehicle(s)
S550
FYI


I believe Europe Sales are counted separately from the UK's RHD cars.

By years end, 15,000+ S550's will be sold in EU alone. About 10,000-12,000 in Canada, 4000-ish in Aus and China. UK maybe 5000.

Close to 40,000 RETAIL SALES FOREIGN/OVERSEAS. Plus the 35,000-ish US Fleet and 70-75,000 retail in the US by end of year.


I bet you the Camaro can't break 65,000 total US sales, how can they possibly beat the Mustang retail vs retail, I will never know. The S550 is a profitable car, maybe more so than the S197 at this point.
 

bootlegger

Enginerd
Joined
Jul 12, 2017
Threads
9
Messages
1,765
Reaction score
593
Location
Mount Pleasant, SC
First Name
James
Vehicle(s)
Ex 2008 Mustang GT Owner
I respectfully disagree. Tech improvements are similar regardless of industry. The details of what that tech is may vary, but the upgrade path is the same. New cutting edge features turn into standard features after a few product cycles. Cell phones are moving faster for a number of reasons, but the process is the same. Electronics improvements have a very valid comparison. Features like Android Auto/Car Play or even basic bluetooth integration were premium "Technology Package" add ons just a few years ago.

And maybe you hit on something. Because mechanical improvements are slower to change than microprocessors perhaps automakers "product cycle" mindset is slower. New manufacturing techniques or metallurgy is introduced slowly over years, and they treat their electronics the same way. I think this is a mistake and frustrates consumers. If I can go buy a beautiful 8" tablet for under $200 it makes an 8" head unit for $2000 seem pretty overpriced.
I work in automotive development. I am not sure you understand the level of work that goes into vehicle tech, whether it be a new clutch system or a new digital dash. Our development costs are far greater than what Apple or Samsung have to invest to bring you a slightly different cell phone. We are also much more regulated.
 

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
83
Messages
12,318
Reaction score
7,487
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
I work in automotive development. I am not sure you understand the level of work that goes into vehicle tech, whether it be a new clutch system or a new digital dash. Our development costs are far greater than what Apple or Samsung have to invest to bring you a slightly different cell phone. We are also much more regulated.
Everybody else's job always seems easy.
Sponsored

 
 




Top