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Are we getting a GT500 or Not

MELLOWYELLOW06

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Im assuming a big yes as Ford needs to have an answer for the DEMON since the Hellcat has been skating around without anyone really bothering it.
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Skullbussa

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Ford needs to keep the eye on the ball and not chase after cars like the Demon and ZL1 and focus on cars they can SELL to ENTHUSIASTS around the world who want a sporty car, not a heavy boat with a big engine.

They should really focus on pushing the performance aspect/marketing of the EcoBoost to tell a consistent story across their product lines.

A supercharger is a band-aid fix and doesn't belong on a serious performance car. I've owned high HP supercharged cars before - they are second rate to turbochargers. Period.

A big N/A motor is a boutique motor that might work for a tiny niche market in the US but will never play overseas. Emissions and fuel consumption make this all but impossible.

The Mustang needs a 3.5 Turbo V6 with forged internals that comes with 550hp/550tq+ stock with room to unlock up to 630 with a tune and bolt-ons. If they have to use a 5.0 TT to get to those numbers, fine, but I don't think they can use that engine anywhere else except in the Raptor.

Ford has too many motors spread out to too many different vehicles and needs to consolidate. I am still scratching my head on the FPC in the 350. Why spend all that development time and money on an engine that goes into ONE car?
 

JoshMac

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Ford needs to keep the eye on the ball and not chase after cars like the Demon and ZL1 and focus on cars they can SELL to ENTHUSIASTS around the world who want a sporty car, not a heavy boat with a big engine.
If you think the "Enthusiasts" are buying base model EB's and not the Halo cars you have mistaken.
They should really focus on pushing the performance aspect/marketing of the EcoBoost to tell a consistent story across their product lines.
Do you pay attention at all to Ford ads? The only product line that doesn't have the Ecoboost as top tier is the Mustang. Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, Taurus, Escape, Explorer, F150 and Expedition are all Ecoboost. More people know and recognize Ecoboost than any other "engine line" ever.

A supercharger is a band-aid fix and doesn't belong on a serious performance car.
Ford, GM and Dodge apparently owe Johnson and Johnson a ton of money, because that "Band-Aid" has been the fix of almost all the halo cars of the Big 3 throughout the years. While capability of a turbo is usually superior, the longevity and life cycle has not been. In the last 10 years the turbo has become more widely accepted as a reliable form of power adder for passenger cars, but still has a vexed view among the general uniformed public.


Ford has too many motors spread out to too many different vehicles and needs to consolidate. I am still scratching my head on the FPC in the 350. Why spend all that development time and money on an engine that goes into ONE car?
Options sell cars, in the same aspect it would be much cheaper if all cars were black and white, but who would buy them? They have different engines for many different uses. Different emissions and fuel consumption requirements in various countries mean that simply condensing the engines for all markets is not remotely possible.

To think that the GT350's 5.2FPC is only providing parts for use in it is absurd. While it may be the only one currently to see the FPC, the other parts are compatible with other Coyote based CPC setups.
 

NHMatt

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Why spend all that development time and money on an engine that goes into ONE car?
My guess would be that while they were in the development cycle of that motor, they thought there may be more applications for it (a Ford Engineer stated in an episode of Jay Leno's garage that there was contemplation regarding using the voodoo in the Ford GT at one point).. but, because of overall width, weight or last-minute efficiency breakthroughs with the 3.5L, they went another way....

I guess what I'm saying is that each and every day the competitive landscape changes, and as a result, decisions change.

Two things strike me as "different" about the Hellcat and Demon... Upon the introduction of the Hellcat, members of the project team stated that they actually exceeded goals. Now, with the Demon, clearly someone at Dodge was able to greenlight a project with the mandate "try to surpass everything". In today's corporate structure, that's somewhat of an oddity... Because, in reality, the price point of the Demon is going to have to be pretty steep. The rumor is that they are only going to make 3,000 or so.... So the revenue and profit would be somewhat constrained. This might be a test to determine how much demand is out there for such a machine.... *shrug*

Clearly, having only been announced last week, unless Ford already had something anticipatory in the pipeline to compete, it would take some time to come up with a car to compete with the Demon. Would it even be wise for Ford to do so?

No doubt that things might get interesting over the next couple model years, but then again.... disappointingly, they might not.

I think I'm just going to hit that red button and try to enjoy my GT350 this weekend. :)

Thoughts?
 

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DrumReaper

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Because sometimes the enthusiasts in a company win and the beancounters don't ;)
Perfect example:

Ford Performance "Hey guys, we'd like to produce a limited-run Shelby GT350 to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Mustang."

Accounting "Sure... pic a few parts from parts bin, modify a GT and get back to us."

FP "Well, were Linda thinking a whole new front end, Magnaride and some carbon fiber bits and pieces..."

Accounting - "Are you serious?..."

FP - "and... we wanna build it around a 5.2L FPC v8."

Accounting - "Have you lost your damn minds?!... we'll lose our asses with a limited run like that!"
 

Dary

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I am still scratching my head on the FPC in the 350. Why spend all that development time and money on an engine that goes into ONE car?
I feel they put it in one car because it's a beta engine. It's easier to control issues in a limited produced car. Sadly this means the owners are beta testers.

Again, this is how I feel about the FPC engine.
 

GT500TT

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If there is any hope of even a limited 2018 GT500 it would have to show pretty soon correct?
 

Erik427

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The parts and pieces are there for Ford to build a CobraJet/GT500/Mach1.
Just a matter of bolting them together......
I'm rooting for a CobraJet!
 

thePill

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If there is any hope of even a limited 2018 GT500 it would have to show pretty soon correct?
Technically, they can sell a MY18 until December 2017.

In fact, even the 2014 z28 was a last Jan '14 show and an April/May shipping date.

But, Mustangs MY19? Will it be in April? June? September? Model Year s aren't exactly standard either.

The GT500 isn't a new concept, in fact, we are beginning to discover that the GT350 and GT500's are about the same age... both spawned early '14.
 

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thePill

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Another piece to consider...

Ford may have always intended for a 2017.5 being based on the current 350. However, with the '18 refresh, Dodge making moves and the race teams JUST getting their GT4's, I think it's best that the 500 waited and the refreshed 350 is delayed.

Who's to say the S650 program won't go back to 2022 as originally planned? We may get 3 full model years of the new 350 w/ DCT option and PDI.
 

Viperbluecobra

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Ford needs to keep the eye on the ball and not chase after cars like the Demon and ZL1 and focus on cars they can SELL to ENTHUSIASTS around the world who want a sporty car, not a heavy boat with a big engine.
I didn't buy a gt350, because I wanted something with more hp and straight line performance. I have the money and could go get one now. Additionally, there is a lot to be said in a showroom, when you get to say you have the "fastest" or "most hp" car in the market. That sells more than "more sporty" car, at least what's what I think here in Merica.

They should really focus on pushing the performance aspect/marketing of the EcoBoost to tell a consistent story across their product lines.
Why?

A supercharger is a band-aid fix and doesn't belong on a serious performance car. I've owned high HP supercharged cars before - they are second rate to turbochargers. Period.
Most reliable form of forced induction that is predictable. I don't think anyone has bitched about the 03-04 cobra resale value and performance. History repeats itself, look at Hellcat and now Demon. All supercharged.

A big N/A motor is a boutique motor that might work for a tiny niche market in the US but will never play overseas. Emissions and fuel consumption make this all but impossible.
I agree with this.

The Mustang needs a 3.5 Turbo V6 with forged internals that comes with 550hp/550tq+ stock with room to unlock up to 630 with a tune and bolt-ons. If they have to use a 5.0 TT to get to those numbers, fine, but I don't think they can use that engine anywhere else except in the Raptor.
I think most will go with whatever the best performance is, however, I think it would be hard to convert the diehard v8 people.

Ford has too many motors spread out to too many different vehicles and needs to consolidate. I am still scratching my head on the FPC in the 350. Why spend all that development time and money on an engine that goes into ONE car?
Who is to really say how far a company should spread out their motor availability? Are you sure the ecoboost motors aren't utilizing the same casts and parts? Ford has been one of the most profitable car companies. If they want to make various special motors good for them. Just give us something that kicks all the others brands arses! :ford:
 

9secondko

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Ford needs to keep the eye on the ball and not chase after cars like the Demon and ZL1 and focus on cars they can SELL to ENTHUSIASTS around the world who want a sporty car, not a heavy boat with a big engine.

They should really focus on pushing the performance aspect/marketing of the EcoBoost to tell a consistent story across their product lines.

A supercharger is a band-aid fix and doesn't belong on a serious performance car. I've owned high HP supercharged cars before - they are second rate to turbochargers. Period.

A big N/A motor is a boutique motor that might work for a tiny niche market in the US but will never play overseas. Emissions and fuel consumption make this all but impossible.

The Mustang needs a 3.5 Turbo V6 with forged internals that comes with 550hp/550tq+ stock with room to unlock up to 630 with a tune and bolt-ons. If they have to use a 5.0 TT to get to those numbers, fine, but I don't think they can use that engine anywhere else except in the Raptor.

Ford has too many motors spread out to too many different vehicles and needs to consolidate. I am still scratching my head on the FPC in the 350. Why spend all that development time and money on an engine that goes into ONE car?
Um... the ball is where the best performing car is. Right now, the "it's only fast in s straight line" cop out is old already. The '14 GT500 was faster in a straight line than the competition and we bragged about it.

Not competing against the top dog is nothing more than admitting defeat. No thanks. 808 horsepower is an amazing number, but it's not like it's unrealistic for the Mustang. And given the GT350 handling advances, the halo Mustang is sure to perform amazingly in a straight line as well as the turns.

Congrats to Dodge for beating the living crap out of everyone. Seriously. That's quite the win. But your days are numbered.
 

machsmith

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Ford isn't gonna go after the demon, their more civilized than that ;)
They know they wouldn't sell more than 5000 of those type cars.
Their goal is 10000 to 12000+
They want a car that's a pleasure to drive but also is track capable and fast. It'll be a 200+ mph car. Beat the zl1 (their objective). I think it gets it done at the teaser 755 hp. I'd welcome 850 if the car wasn't any heavier or less satisfactory to drive.
At 755 HP and under 4000 lbs it will give the demon a war on the street. The Demon needs race gas for the 860 and out of those 3000 fellas that buy the demon, how many are going to be on the street to challenge? I would hope a lot but there won't be...and doubt they would be running race gas at the time. 800 HP would be better but 755 is still hard to put down on the street for the first few gears.
That dct will be fun tho
 

9secondko

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Ford isn't gonna go after the demon, their more civilized than that ;)
They know they wouldn't sell more than 5000 of those type cars.
Their goal is 10000 to 12000+
They want a car that's a pleasure to drive but also is track capable and fast. It'll be a 200+ mph car. Beat the zl1 (their objective). I think it gets it done at the teaser 755 hp. I'd welcome 850 if the car wasn't any heavier or less satisfactory to drive.
At 755 HP and under 4000 lbs it will give the demon a war on the street. The Demon needs race gas for the 860 and out of those 3000 fellas that buy the demon, how many are going to be on the street to challenge? I would hope a lot but there won't be...and doubt they would be running race gas at the time. 800 HP would be better but 755 is still hard to put down on the street for the first few gears.
That dct will be fun tho
Ford won't be forcing customers to use race gas or any other clunky method of unlocking power. But they'll pour on the power. And they don't have to match the demon power figures to be faster. But they need some serious power. I'm guess the top 'Stang will be faster than the demon in both straight line and track performance. Not including the race gas setup. But that's possible too.

Ford has the technology to do ONE thing that would accomplish this. One thing. It depends on which team wins internally.
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