GT350 vs. Z/28

[thePill]

These words don't look like your making a estimate.

That says GT-R... I would like to have a Mustang GT-R option.

Wouldn't you want a GT-R option?

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[thePill]

So, facts these guys want to distract you from...

The 2015 GT IS NOT 82lbs heavier than the last GT as advertised. We are seeing that they are literally right on top of the old curb weights.

The other is the cheating at the Ring. Yes, Chevy cheated and didn't get away with it. It kills them to qoute an "official" time only to see its cheated.

Everything else above is true to the best of my knowledge. These are resident idiots but they are my resident idiots and I won't be eliminating them.


Edit: I say we explore the z28's Ring Run some more. I want to know why it's okay to cheat...

 

[thePill]

No? Nobody want to discuss a z28's lap time prematurely cut short? You wanna split a pound eight ways but a 1/2 a second goes without saying?

Come on, every time I bring this up it is completely ignored.

As for the 2015, believe these garages or not. Believe me or not.... They are NOT 80lbs heavier. They are almost exactly the same as the 2011-2014's that were benchmarked.

This argument was lost, now I need to show my birth certificate and put my hand on the bible.

Um... No I don't... Like it or not, A LOT of people come in here to read. A small group of full grown men cryin' on the Internet isn't going to change that.

The z28 is about to lose... and the 6th Gen isn't going to change that for fear of an LT4.

 

[thePill]

UNSATISFACTORY...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/los-angeles-street-race-leaves-2-pedestrians-dead-1-critical/

They were out there for awhile. The roads look terrible.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-spectators-chatsworth-fatalities-20150226-story.html

This Mustang had slicks and no plate. He was out there racing "A Black Camaro" according to reports.

http://abc7.com/news/2-pedestrians-killed-in-chatsworth-street-racing-hit-and-run/535300/

Police are searching for the driver of the Mustang as well as the driver of another car believed to be racing the Mustang. Officials did not have a description of the second vehicle, but a witness told Eyewitness News that the Mustang was racing a black Chevy Camaro.

Be safe guys...

 

[thePill]

Here they come!!!

The z28's only hope now is incompetent editors that test these two.

 

[thePill]

Sorry children, I don't just go away. You are arguing semantics. Pill brings insider information into this place, you guys don't. You try to argue inane points that don't mean squat. Your trying to play some kind of gotcha over nothing. People are here to learn about the GT350. Fact is, nobody knows what every car weighs, nobody owns the name and rights to define a roll cage from a roll bar, and if you ever carried a sofa up stairs you know that changing the angle of the support through the CG of an object affects the supports. So, do you know any insider scoop or something relevant to the GT350? If not, you get out.

I thank you for the defense 200MPH, they come to point out mistakes in grammar, spelling and punctuation... Looking for a loop-hole to put their penis in... I am on a hit list and I know full well the challenges the challenged bring.

Certainly nobody knows all the cars weights however, that won't stop us from trying to acquire a spread. My "Bad Information" I reported months ago has already been observed by the VERY FIRST 3rd Party weigh in. I said the 2015 was pretty close to the GT it was benchmarked against in terms of Curb Weight. I still don't have enough scales to determine if there was some fat left out of the official figure. So far, there looks to be maybe 20-40lbs, maybe more.

These guys love to argue chassis and platform. I was grilled for a weight prediction I based on a color photo weeks before the official release. I don't care... I would make the same prediction again not knowing the standard equipment. A prediction that I, thePill, directly challenged a "Ford Insider" and... I won... Maybe not the 3500lbs GT I was looking for but, I will settle for 3577lbs especially since my 2011 was almost exactly that. There was never any need to bring in a Base GT from half a decade ago. They just desperately needed that 82lbs to be accurate. Now they want to use that weight instead of the 3622lbs Ford and the media used as a benchmark.

Then they claim my car was lighter than I say... Good to know...

Also, not all my info can be confirmed as Insider. I hear a lot of different things from a lot of unknown sources and I just don't have the ability to research them all. Hell, even my 2015 Cage/Weight Dist. figure is from a source and not my own discovery. It could just be random people sending me emails and messages on FB that have no idea. I need to use as much logic as available to weed out these hearsay's. The issue here is that my hearsay is becoming fact and that is just not acceptable.

Cages and Bars... Good lord... either way... 80-110lbs is shifted over the rear of the car using the basis for ALL cage work. 90% of the weight is shifted to the rear in just that configuration. That said, it brings the '15 GT back up to it's advertised weight and distribution and then some. They want to argue about scaling a car and distribution but have NO idea the tire pressure could alter that to a degree. I have seen tons of configurations and have heard them called many different things... Drifting has brought on some unique cage designs over the last 10 years. Leverage is the word I think and, a bar/cage mounted up high will have a greater affect on weight distribution than an equal weight of gasoline in the tank (mounted at or around the CG). Gotta watch the rake...

The only relevant information they have about the GT350/GT350R is that is coming for the z28. It will be lighter, cheaper, better balanced and more powerful...

Even though their discussion is a chain of idiocy, it is still welcomed. I have a semi-agreement with J. to let these guys be. As long as no religion, politics, race or sex is involved...

thePill IS NOT CAMARO5...



....and many, many thanks for reading...

 

[DivineStrike]

I thank you for the defense 200MPH, they come to point out mistakes in grammar, spelling and punctuation... Looking for a loop-hole to put their penis in... I am on a hit list and I know full well the challenges the challenged bring.

Certainly nobody knows all the cars weights however, that won't stop us from trying to acquire a spread. My "Bad Information" I reported months ago has already been observed by the VERY FIRST 3rd Party weigh in. I said the 2015 was pretty close to the GT it was benchmarked against in terms of Curb Weight. I still don't have enough scales to determine if there was some fat left out of the official figure. So far, there looks to be maybe 20-40lbs, maybe more.

These guys love to argue chassis and platform. I was grilled for a weight prediction I based on a color photo weeks before the official release. I don't care... I would make the same prediction again not knowing the standard equipment. I prediction that I, thePill, directly challenged a "Ford Insider" and... I won... Maybe not the 3500lbs GT I was looking for but, I will settle for 3577lbs especially since my 2011 was almost exactly that. There was never any need to bring in a Base GT from half a decade ago. They just desperately needed that 82lbs to be accurate. Now they want to use that weight instead of the 3622lbs Ford and the media used as a benchmark.

Then they claim my car was lighter than I say... Good to know...

Also, not all my info can be confirmed as Insider. I hear a lot of different things from a lot of unknown sources and I just don't have the ability to research them all. Hell, even my 2015 Cage/Weight Dist. figure is from a source and not my own discovery. It could just be random people sending me emails and messages on FB that have no idea. I need to use as much logic as available to weed out these hearsay's. The issue here is that my hearsay is becoming fact and that is just not acceptable.

Cages and Bars... Good lord... either way... 80-110lbs is shifted over the rear of the car using the basis for ALL cage work. 90% of the weight is shifted to the rear in just that configuration. That said, it brings the '15 GT back up to it's advertised weight and distribution and then some. They want to argue about scaling a car and distribution but have NO idea the tire pressure could alter that to a degree. I have seen tons of configurations and have heard them called many different things... Drifting has brought on some unique cage designs over the last 10 years. Leverage is the word I think and, a bar/cage mounted up high will have a greater affect on weight distribution than an equal weight of gasoline in the tank (mounted at or around the CG). Gotta watch the rake...

The only relevant information they have about the GT350/GT350R is that is coming for the z28. It will be lighter, cheaper, better balanced and more powerful...

Even though their discussion is a chain of idiocy, it is still welcomed. I have a semi-agreement with J. to let these guys be. As long as no religion, politics, race or sex is involved...

thePill IS NOT CAMARO5...



....and many, many thanks for reading...

I was doing the simple math based off the information you provided...If you gave me correct information, the weights I gave you are correct

And the s550 did gain weight...you just refuse to acknowledge a base gt actually weighs the manufacturers claimed curb weight which has been out for nearly a year now... You didn't predict anything. You always predicted it would be lighter

 

[thePill]

I was doing the simple math based off the information you provided...If you gave me correct information, the weights I gave you are correct

And the s550 did gain weight...you just refuse to acknowledge a base gt actually weighs the manufacturers claimed curb weight which has been out for nearly a year now... You didn't predict anything. You always predicted it would be lighter

It did gain weight... 82lbs? Nope... 125lbs? Nope...

Reality, there wasn't much gain at all. That was the point and, is now becoming fact. How can I claim that the 3705lbs is solid IF we are not weighing the Base GT's at 3705lbs? They are slightly under which NEVER happened until this year. Previously, Ford had two Curb Weights, A Base and a Premium. Now, there is only a single weight for multiple models. This usually doesn't happen and we are set on finding out why. So far, we have ONE 2015 Base GT that is about 8lbs lighter than the 3705lbs (Terry's). While it isn't a big deal, it is promising since it is the first one weighed publicly. From there, we seen them go 10-25lbs beyond that. So... I want to keep scaling cars and seeing whats up.

Our 2011's weighed 3576lbs and 3580lbs. The 2015's were 3577 and 3593lbs in nearly the same configuration and same fuel levels. I am sorry, nothing can change that, PERIOD... and, those are not the only two cars that have been weighed that.

I understand your point, add in the Premium and Performance Packages. How bout no? Lets just get them close in equipment and carry on from there. I was happy, the Terry's were happy and a handful of other locals were thrilled.

The PP is a good package but, it eliminates ALL of our lightweight 18x10 wheel options while adding in incredible rotational mass and cost/replacement cost. Everything else on the PP is at Ford Racing.

The Premium is far and away better than any luxury package ever offered on a Mustang. It is just not comparable to any previous Premium before it. It has heavy standard seats and a far better stereo, sub and amp.

What I tried to communicate in November was, these 2015 Mustang's were actually right on top on our 2011 GT. It was a surprise... a delightful surprise... Now, many (as well as I) assumed that if they were indeed close, then there was a possibility that a few would show up lighter. We were correct... I can tell you now that we can expect some to be slightly heavier too. That is just the way it is...

But I will tell you the way it isn't... It isn't 82lbs heavier than the 2014 GT. You can't even equip a 2014 the way a Standard 2015 GT is. That said... The 2015 is about the same weight as my 2011. The 2013-'14's are a little heavier.

 

[DivineStrike]

Yes but it was very understandable the gt could weigh a little less, back when Ford announced the curb weights back in July, just not by much...these numbers are nothing special or new. The car you weighed, if all the info you gave us is correct (im sorry but your info on your car or the car you weighed just hasn't been very consistent)...it is 18lbs less than Ford's curb weight. However other base gts are as advertised.

You can't just compare your car either, it is great you are happy with that comparison but it's not the final word on this issue either. Other 11-14 cars with your same options weigh less than your car

 

[thePill]

Yes but it was very understandable the gt could weigh a little less, back when Ford announced the curb weights back in July, just not by much...these numbers are nothing special or new. The car you weighed, if all the info you gave us is correct (im sorry but your info on your car or the car you weighed just hasn't been very consistent)...it is 18lbs less than Ford's curb weight. However other base gts are as advertised.

You can't just compare your car either, it is great you are happy with that comparison but it's not the final word on this issue either. Other 11-14 cars with your same options weigh less than your car

Yes, so far we observed a 3656-3697lbs spread on five (05) 2015 Mustang GT's weighed.

The above weight estimates is just an ESTIMATE based on the base-lined Race weights of customers cars. We will NEVER fully disclose customer info EVER but, we can add in the weight and give you an estimate.

Also, these weights assume the tank as ZERO fuel and 96lbs is added onto the current race weight (unknown here). All Mustang's weighed had some fuel in them but were ALL well under 50 to E.

All estimates are w/o the 13lbs of Junk except one which had the 5lbs pump removed ONLY.

I'm not sure if you could find a 2011-2014 Premium under Ford's 3616-3622lbs (the gain between the 11/12 and 13/14 Ford claims). But then again, not many magazines actually weigh the cars so, that is out.

Ford use to report the Base and Premium separately but only used the 3622lbs as the OFFICIAL Curb Weight while ignoring the 3580lbs. I am wondering if the same thing has happened here...

Previous Gen Mustang's had a 42lbs weight difference (weight of the Premium Package). Could this 3705lbs be a Premium as to present a heaviest case scenario? If only ONE single curb weight is reported this Gen, is there a possibility that we could see a similar weight difference in the real world?

thePill says....



YES....


Edit: Use this as a rule of thumb. We have a good idea how much the Performance Pack weighs now right? About 70lbs.

Now, even if we use THE ONLY GTPP on here that was weighed (at 3744lbs), what's that give us? That's 3674lbs right there bud. Wolf weighed a Black GTPP at 3722lbs and 3718lbs....

Yes, a GTPP... What does that tell you when equipment is deleted?

 

[thePill]

MSRP TALK.

GT350 @ $52,995

GT350R @ $64,995

Track Package could be a $5000 dollar option (YIKES)

I just got off the phone with an acquaintance I have known for 12 years that has worked for FoMoCo for 28 years (senior manager) He just told me that he heard that the MRSP will be between (Base w/o options) $52K- $53K and the "R" will be base $64K $65K. And the HP will be 520 and the TQ 450, or (a tad above) If this is correct, then fully opt it should be around 71K at the tops. Hope he is right. I wish I could have this in writing, but this point its just hear say, but from a great source.

Thanks Don!!!

If that HP figure is correct AND, our PtW Ratio rumor is correct at 6.63, then the 2016 (please make a limited '15 run) GT350R weighs 3450lbs. That would make a GT350TP 3585lbs which seems a little low (unless the more than 135lbs rumor is a lot more).

One of these numbers has to be incorrect....

Although, looking at the Base GT's equipment weight and standard bologna, I can find 100lbs in the GT that the GT350 could shed. There was an impressive weight savings to be had in rotors/wheels and driveshaft alone. Here is where this mysterious 20-40lbs of magically lost GT weight is found and credited to the GT350. I know it isn't a lot but we still don't really have a good idea how low they actually go or, if the 3705lbs is just what they decided on among the countless GT variations. The GT350's would be more precise in weights because there are less variations.

If these numbers are correct, just /thread closed please...

 

[DivineStrike]

Yes, so far we observed a 3656-3697lbs spread on five (05) 2015 Mustang GT's weighed.

The above weight estimates is just an ESTIMATE based on the base-lined Race weights of customers cars. We will NEVER fully disclose customer info EVER but, we can add in the weight and give you an estimate.

Also, these weights assume the tank as ZERO fuel and 96lbs is added onto the current race weight (unknown here). All Mustang's weighed had some fuel in them but were ALL well under 50 to E.

All estimates are w/o the 13lbs of Junk except one which had the 5lbs pump removed ONLY.

I'm not sure if you could find a 2011-2014 Premium under Ford's 3616-3622lbs (the gain between the 11/12 and 13/14 Ford claims). But then again, not many magazines actually weigh the cars so, that is out.


Previous Gen Mustang's had a 42lbs weight difference (weight of the Premium Package). Could this 3705lbs be a Premium as to present a heaviest case scenario? If only ONE single curb weight is reported this Gen, is there a possibility that we could see a similar weight difference in the real world?

thePill says....



YES....


Edit: Use this as a rule of thumb. We have a good idea how much the Performance Pack weighs now right? About 70lbs.

Now, even if we use THE ONLY GTPP on here that was weighed (at 3744lbs), what's that give us? That's 3674lbs right there bud. Wolf weighed a Black GTPP at 3722lbs and 3718lbs....

Yes, a GTPP... What does that tell you when equipment is deleted?

First how do you claim the PP is 70lbs? We have several weights to compare w/ non premium GT's. Two bases at 3685 and 3704 and a GT PP at 3722 (I haven't seen the 3744 weight yet so I will leave that out for now since I don't know exactly how it was optioned) That leaves, even if the 3744 is with only PP added, a 59 lbs gain at most dropping all the way to an 18 lb gain. I would like a link to the 3744 weight please. I suspect there are more options there, either way 38lbs is the other number if there are more options in that heavier weight.

38lbs seems to me, to be a fair estimate of what the PP weighs. Although about 60lbs isn't too outlandish. Just keep in mind my well optioned premium w/ PP weighs 3810 with no weight reduction and a full tank.

ok so,


3-7 miles to empty on a 15 is Less than a gallon, It is closer to half.

That spread of yours is incorrectly calculated due to you wanting to portray an image. The spread is 3685 to 3704lbs on the Base GT's weighed.

Math= 3593 + 97.65 (15.5ish gallons of gas at 6.3lbs per gallon) + 13lbs trunk junkfor a total of 3704lbs

Math+ 3577 + 94.5 (15ish gallons of gas at 6.3lbs, btw I'm giving it more gas than is probably in there) +13 for a total of 3685lbs

These numbers are assuming your cars weight and the pictured cars weight are cars on the opposite ends of the spectrum. (yours being the lightest and the pictured one being the heaviest)

I know you left out trunk junk...but why? to portray this under 3700lb image? Seriously stop with all the different weights. Consistency is key when trying to get a point across. Either stick with your Empty fuel and trunk junk removed weight or start talking in only curb weight talk as that is what you are comparing to. Either is acceptable as long as an estimated fuel capacity is known and if any equipment is removed during the weigh.

Curb weight is Full tank of gas with no OEM equipment removed.

IN this quote you go from not talking about complete curb weight to comparing the old 11-14 curb weight. That in itself is dishonest and deceptive. Granted you did explain yourself a little better in this quote, but using two different calculations when comparing two weights is like i said...deceptive to readers.

Ford use to report the Base and Premium separately but only used the 3622lbs as the OFFICIAL Curb Weight while ignoring the 3580lbs. I am wondering if the same thing has happened here...

What are you wondering is happening here? the curb weights of these cars are inline with the Fords estimated curb weight this time.

 

[DivineStrike]

MSRP's if true look promising. Maybe I can buy one used down the line if I decide to trade up.

 

[thePill]

Here, this will not help your arguement much.

Here is a Fully Loaded, Premium GTPP with around 12 gallons of gas.

We know a fully loaded Premium GTPP weighs 3814lbs (per C&D).

We also know there is around 125lbs of options availible. We broke it down to 45lbs in a Premium (42lbs last year) and 70lbs for a Performance Package (50-60lbs last year/Brembo). That leaves around 10lbs for stand alone options.

This car weighed 3780lbs, maybe 3800 total...

Strip out the options (or around 125lbs) and we get a good idea where it's at. That's givng us a number well under 3705lbs... About 3675lbs to be exact...

http://www.mustang6g.com/?p=3046

I can find one automatic that weighed what Ford said it does.

Believe it or not, it's none of my concern....

 

[02gtnh]

The issue is, the option don't weigh 125lbs, you are just guessing. The what does it weigh thread shows that the options are lighter. Also that weight of 3780 when full will put it at the magazine weight of 3814. We also now know a base GT with no options weight 3704 lbs. so that shows the pp package and options weigh 110lbs.

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