GT 350 just got crushed by the C8

[Notagain]

Ill be surprised if the Camaro doesnt die before it gets the LT2.

If it does get the LT2 and manages to survive Im still not sure Ford will have to care and would likely make the 480hp Bullitt engine the same on all the 5.0s.

Ford is already handily outselling the Camaro so I dont see Ford having to do much for changes until the S650 chassis redesign.

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[martinjlm]

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/07/28/2020-chevy-corvette-nearly-sold-out/

Don't believe everything you read more hype to sell more cars.

It’s probably true though. Happens with every new gen Corvette. Take into account that for the first several months the car is in ramp up mode. Maybe 500 - 750 cars a month. Sold out probably equals 15 - 17,000 units. Then take into account that dealer stock orders are (from a company bookkeeping standpoint) sold units. So it doesn’t mean “hey dude, you’re too late....they’re all sold out”. It means “If you want a custom order, you’re probably getting a ‘21, but we’ll allow you to check dealer stock to find one equipped the way you want”.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Ill be surprised if the Camaro doesnt die before it gets the LT2.

I agree.

This isn't about good ol' boys trying to one up each other at the strip or road course, this is about a huge corporation, trying to be profitable - GM would have to look at the costs to "port" the LT2 over to the Camaro and determine if that means anything in terms of improving their bottom line. I mean, it __might__ make sense to have a single formance V8 option across multiple models (like they had with the LT1), but the reconfiguration to use it in a Camaro chassis might offset that[?]

Sold out probably equals 15 - 17,000 units.

Ahh, yeah, I was wondering what that number might be.

I think it's easy to underestimate the popularity of the Vette, the pent up excitement over this totally new platform - and, the reasonably low entry price.

Around here, I see as many Vettes (including plenty of C7s of various flavors) as I do Mustangs!

 

[martinjlm]

Do you guys think Ford will have an answer for the upcoming 2021+ camaro ss most likely having the lt2 engine? In my opinion, since Corvette is equipped with mid engine and dct, even though camaro gains the lt2 powerplant the performance gap will remain. So the question is will Ford have an answer for an upgraded camaro ss? Possible option is making the Bullitt engine mainstream for the GT’s and maybe squeezing a little more power and torque out of it.

Ill be surprised if the Camaro doesnt die before it gets the LT2.

If it does get the LT2 and manages to survive Im still not sure Ford will have to care and would likely make the 480hp Bullitt engine the same on all the 5.0s.

Ford is already handily outselling the Camaro so I dont see Ford having to do much for changes until the S650 chassis redesign.

Two things playing against each other here. Camaro will be “eligible” for LT2 as soon as Corvette gets the 5.5L DOHC. The way the game has usually been played recently is as long as Corvette has an engine on top, Camaro can use the base engine. Actually, Gen6 ZL1 even broke that rule, since it did not wait for LT5 to come out to get LT4, so arguably, it was match-for-match with Z06. Those are the pro-Camaro LT2 arguments.

The con-Camaro LT2 argument is even simpler. GM engineers “powercubes”. This engine + that transmission = a powercube. Right now, LT2 + DCT is a powercube. Camaro is not getting a DCT, so another powercube would have to be developed. Yes, Camaro and C7 had different 8AT transmission, but the integration engineering would have been close enough to not drive a lot of additional work. Going from a DCT to a 10AT and having to turn the engine 180-degrees might drive enough engineering work to make it not happen.

At the end of the day, I do have Camaro LT2 + 10AT in my GM engine forecast. The worked saved by not moving Camaro to Alpha2 will have likely freed up enough engineering resource to allow LT2 + 10AT to happen.

 

[Jmtoast]

It's crazy that there are people are ordering cars they haven't test-driven, especially the one that's on a completely new chassis, but the question now is not if people will buy it, but rather the demographics. Will it be (at least for the Stingray) the same old guys who drive on the right lane going 10 under or did they manage to attract a slightly younger crowd? What options did they choose? What's the average and median prices and were there any ADMs?

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/07/28/2020-chevy-corvette-nearly-sold-out/

Yeah It's almost sold out. People who buy vette's are the type that drive their cars for a few thousand miles and trade them anyways because they can afford to. Or they die and their grand kids sell them. But I digress.

 

[Jmtoast]

One of my favorite videos. My car 15GT headers, tune and CAI vs automatic Zo6. This was taken in 2016. So the zo6 was a legit 90 grand car back then. Corvette 11.3@128. Stang 11.6@116.

It's shocking to me how rare it is to see a corvette do much better. The net is littered with vettes way under performing. I'm inclined to say driver mod but I've seen experienced racers fail to come close to beating the advertised time.

 

[martinjlm]

It's shocking to me how rare it is to see a corvette do much better. The net is littered with vettes way under performing. I'm inclined to say driver mod but I've seen experienced racers fail to come close to beating the advertised time.

When I see Vettes at the track, what I notice is a lot of wheel spin. They are ridiculously light in the ass-end. C8 will swing the pendulum tremendously in the opposite direction since now all the mass will be right on top of the rear axle.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

It's shocking to me how rare it is to see a corvette do much better. The net is littered with vettes way under performing. I'm inclined to say driver mod but I've seen experienced racers fail to come close to beating the advertised time.

Id like to climb in one. And make 10 passes. See if they are a 10 second car. Or find out if GM just neutered them with torque management.

 

[martinjlm]

Id like to climb in one. And make 10 passes. See if they are a 10 second car. Or find out if GM just neutered them with torque management.

I think you can turn a lot of that off with the mode switches, especially with the automatics. I’m not as up to speed on that with C7 as I am with Cam6, though. My theory is a lot of the wheelspin that I see is people who turn off the traction control and go into “Competition Mode” and then can’t control the wheelspin. I had that problem for a while in my Camaro. For a long time I got better times just leaving the nannies on in Track mode.

 

[Mikthehun1]

Two things playing against each other here. Camaro will be “eligible” for LT2 as soon as Corvette gets the 5.5L DOHC. The way the game has usually been played recently is as long as Corvette has an engine on top, Camaro can use the base engine. Actually, Gen6 ZL1 even broke that rule, since it did not wait for LT5 to come out to get LT4, so arguably, it was match-for-match with Z06. Those are the pro-Camaro LT2 arguments.

The con-Camaro LT2 argument is even simpler. GM engineers “powercubes”. This engine + that transmission = a powercube. Right now, LT2 + DCT is a powercube. Camaro is not getting a DCT, so another powercube would have to be developed. Yes, Camaro and C7 had different 8AT transmission, but the integration engineering would have been close enough to not drive a lot of additional work. Going from a DCT to a 10AT and having to turn the engine 180-degrees might drive enough engineering work to make it not happen.

At the end of the day, I do have Camaro LT2 + 10AT in my GM engine forecast. The worked saved by not moving Camaro to Alpha2 will have likely freed up enough engineering resource to allow LT2 + 10AT to happen.

How does this relate to GameCubes?

 

[Jmtoast]

When I see Vettes at the track, what I notice is a lot of wheel spin. They are ridiculously light in the ass-end. C8 will swing the pendulum tremendously in the opposite direction since now all the mass will be right on top of the rear axle.

Chevy is claiming a 2.76 or something silly. The Mclaren 720s reports a time of 2.8 0-60. That's a mid engine car with 700hp, with all the state of the art goodies to boot, and better tires. Not to mention it's even lighter. I can't buy that. Sure it will be a lot quicker due to the setup but I can't buy that it will be quicker than a similarly setup car that weighs less, more advanced, and has more horsepower. So yeah Chevy loves to make things up. They know most of their buyers will never go over 4000rpms so they can get away with it. Don't buy the hype train on this. That's what people are buying

 

[martinjlm]

It’s probably true though. Happens with every new gen Corvette. Take into account that for the first several months the car is in ramp up mode. Maybe 500 - 750 cars a month. Sold out probably equals 15 - 17,000 units. Then take into account that dealer stock orders are (from a company bookkeeping standpoint) sold units. So it doesn’t mean “hey dude, you’re too late....they’re all sold out”. It means “If you want a custom order, you’re probably getting a ‘21, but we’ll allow you to check dealer stock to find one equipped the way you want”.

Just remembered.... last time I “special ordered” a Corvette, the dealer just went in and tweaked the content on one that he had ordered for stock to include the content I wanted.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

How does this relate to GameCubes?

Eternal Darkness was so good!

 

[Hack]

The median age of new Corvette purchase is 61 so you're on the younger side and Vette drivers I've seen at the strip definitely don't drive them slowly. But I rarely see any late-model Vettes speed and most of them are driven by older gentlemen. Maybe they got them to show the world that they are at a point where they can get something more expensive than Camaros rather than auto enthusiast type like yourself? Sure, it's anecdotal evidence, although I think there's some truth to it since I'm not only one having this observation.

I think the characterizations of being driven by older gentlemen and not breaking traffic laws tend to be true of most expensive sports cars. The people who are making stupid decisions and risking losing the car or their license tend to be younger/dumber. The people that can afford an expensive sports car tend to be careful - that's how they ended up with the money to afford a more expensive car.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

I think the characterizations of being driven by older gentlemen and not breaking traffic laws tend to be true of most expensive sports cars. The people who are making stupid decisions and risking losing the car or their license tend to be younger/dumber. The people that can afford an expensive sports car tend to be careful - that's how they ended up with the money to afford a more expensive car.

You see that reflected in insurance too. As I've purchased and/or shopped more expensive cars with higher performance, my insurance estimates have stayed the same, or even in some cases gone down.

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