Solvent and water based paint questions.

[HoosierDaddy]

I had stripes painted on my S550 and the shop gave me the can for the Ford Velocity Blue paint from R-M so I would have the formula printed on it. The shop said they had to buy the paint mixed from R-M because one of the pearls in the formula is a restricted substance because it is used in US paper money. I was bored so searched on the line of paint and found it was solvent based. The factory paint is water based.

I'm assuming there are no issues using solvent based paint over the water based factory paint but didn't think solvent based auto paint was legal in Arizona and my interpretation of the County regs seem to confirm that the amount of VOC listed on the can would be out of compliance. Of course there are probably lots of loop-holes and I may be misunderstanding the technical regs with all their jargon.

But I am curious why the shop used a solvent based paint. Its not their normal practice. They repaired my 2013 ATS after it got T-boned and that was with water based paint.

Any pros know if there are any benefits (or drawbacks) for ME having the stripes done with solvent based paint? I don't know if they used water based clear on the panels that were striped.

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[robwlf]

no issue what so ever you can spray solvent over water base i do it all the time .. as im a painter.. the base coat is water .. the clear coat is still solvent . there isnt a water base clear made.. solvent isnt illegal anywhere its not mandated yet for shops to switch over to water yet least not in phila ..
so to answer your question .. you will have np what so ever.. i shoot rm diamont have been for 8 yrs.. and have never had any issue what so ever spraying over water base in any situation at all

 

[HoosierDaddy]

no issue what so ever you can spray solvent over water base i do it all the time .. as im a painter.. the base coat is water .. the clear coat is still solvent . there isnt a water base clear made.. solvent isnt illegal anywhere its not mandated yet for shops to switch over to water yet least not in phila ..
so to answer your question .. you will have np what so ever.. i shoot rm diamont have been for 8 yrs.. and have never had any issue what so ever spraying over water base in any situation at all

Thanks a lot! Am also interested if I am better off with the solvent base (Diamont) than if the stripes were water based. Maybe one minor down side might be that my research indicates water based paint can go down thinner which would minimize the height of the "step" up to the stripe. Of course that may be almost meaningless other than making it more likely to wear thru the clear at the edge of the stripe in some future paint correction.

I don't even know if water based was an option. As an ignorant consumer it would not surprise me if some formulas are only doable in solvent. It still blows my mind that the shop which mixes all their own R-M colors from the components had to buy a quart of this pre-mixed from R-M because one of the components was some kind of controlled substance.

 

[robwlf]

most water base does take less coats for sure ... any paint code can be done in water or solvent just depends on the system there using.. as i shoot solvent ive never ran into a paint code i couldnt mix ..id be interested what the paint code is your using for stripes.. id like to put it in my comp and see what pigment there talking about. there is a pearl that i dont carry only because i dont run into it much and a small bottle is over 140 bucks our cost. and to get it on hand would be a waste as it would sit on the shelf

i mix all my own also .. if you can try and post up the code your using id like to see what there talking about

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Thanks. Below is the label of the can they gave me. But after the stripes, a forum vendor that sells custom painted parts, said Velocity Blue is a 3 stage color, so I don't know if that means there is another mixture that gets applied separately that I don't have the formula for.

From: http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?type=paint&paint=186434&ditzler=zM7423&syear=2019&smake=Ford&smodel=Mustang&sname=Velocity Blue

The code is M7423 or E7 (2019 short code for Velocity Blue)

Since the factory clear is solvent, maybe they went solvent for the stripes just so there are no possible effects from layering types. Basically layers related to my stripe are: factory solvent clear (scuffed), R-M solvent stripes, R-M solvent clear.

 

[robwlf]

ill take a look today at work . if its a 3 stage then its a base. then a almost clear tinted blue over that, then clear . which if it is a 3 stage you should have another can with the mid coat .. every paint line is different, rm it might be just base coat clear coat, and say sikkens, or chromax. it could be 3 stage , base, mid ,clear .. ill look at it in work toady and get back to you..
that bc100 is a clear for base 41 and 47v are both pearls

 

[HoosierDaddy]

ill take a look today at work . if its a 3 stage then its a base. then a almost clear tinted blue over that, then clear . which if it is a 3 stage you should have another can with the mid coat .. every paint line is different, rm it might be just base coat clear coat, and say sikkens, or chromax. it could be 3 stage , base, mid ,clear .. ill look at it in work toady and get back to you..
that bc100 is a clear for base 41 and 47v are both pearls

A part of the label I blocked to avoid showing account info for the painter also said "Step: 2 of 2" which was a little confusing to me since the clear has to be the final step. But maybe I don't understand what step means. But then again, the label also had a date after the stripes were painted which was explained to me as a typo by the R-M source. So, maybe anything on the label could be wrong. I'm pretty sure they gave me the right can because they said it was plus I took the car on a road trip before final sanding and buffing and I watched them fill a rock chip with the contents of that can.

Having a paint be two stage for some manufacturers and three for others might explain why JLT has an extra charge for Velocity Blue due to it being a 3 step color while the can I got hints at it being a 2 stage (step).

I really appreciate your information.

 

[robwlf]

so on my system its only a 3 stage cause its gets a light gray ground coat before the base is put on . so to paint any part it would get ... light gray (ground coat).. then the blue, then clear which is 3 stages ..and 41l and 44v are both special tints it popped up soon as i put the code in to call my dist or basf for the paint to get mixed or buy the tints..
ones intense blue.. and the other is bright blue...which i dont stock on my mixing machine

thats deff the right mix everything on that label is on my mix as well and the light gray ground coat.. is just to insure coverage.cause that base is pretty transparent and the ground coat isnt anything special..its just
bc194 and bc201 which is just white and black

i get some codes that are 4 stage.
ground coat, base coat, mid coat, and clear ..mid coats are a tint almost see through gm is good for that and mazda

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Interesting. I'm guessing the base coat can be laid on the ground coat while the ground coat is still wet. The painter explained that the masking for the stripes had to be removed while the paint was wet or some of the dried stripe edge would come off with the tape. So it sounds like they would have to mask the stripes on the entire car twice if they couldn't lay the base while the ground was still wet. If they masked twice, I can't imagine they could hand mask that perfect enough. Plus, the masking was the biggest part of the job. So, both coats had to be done at the same time or they skipped the ground coat. Either way, it sounds like a difficult color to do if the base is pretty transparent which I assume means it does not tolerate any variation in thickness.

I wonder if Ford skips the ground coat by using a light gray primer. Ford does not charge extra for Velocity Blue like it does their other extra stage paints. Or maybe other paint manufactures have a formula that doesn't require a special ground coat. I can't even imagine how paint manufacturers with entirely different materials (I am assuming) independently come up with their own unique formulas for a particular color.

If my painter did skip the ground coat, it didn't have much affect painting the VB over the Oxford White instead of a ground coat. I parked my car next to a Velocity Blue Mustang at a dealer and could not tell any difference. Of course, that's not comparing panels on the same plane and same lighting side by side.

Am very happy with the way the stripes look.

Thanks for the education.

 

[robwlf]

most factory cars come with a gray eco coat.. primer when its made every panel has that coating .which is way rm and most paint lines want you to use a ground coat in case your painting a new panel, say a fender you would ground coat the fender hang it on the car then blend the base coat into the other panels to match the factory

paint companys do a lot of testing so they can get the colors correct.. plus theres also varibles for paints like toyota there are a lot depends on the plant it was built like there silvers have a lot. darker/yellower... lighter/bluer.. darker/ courser..but yours was only one mix

us painters have a lot to look at matching paint ,then the older the car the harder it is cause paint fades over time so we have our hands full most jobs lol

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