MT Head 2 Head - 2018 Camaro SS 1LE vs 2018 Mustang GT

[MaskedRacerX]

Hey guys, I have a WII-U, and I'm thinking of going onto an XBOX forum and defending the PS4 ... am I doing this right?

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[1320']

Yeah because Motor Trend just didn't just pick the gt350r the winner against the ZL1 head-to-head even though the ZL1 beat it in every performance category.

I thought you were done here?

 

[thill444]

Hey guys, I have a WII-U, and I'm thinking of going onto an XBOX forum and defending the PS4 ... am I doing this right?

Okay that's pretty funny....

 

[Baron95]

There are a lot of misconceptions here as to how the "magnetic suspension" works and what it can do.

First, there is no such thing as "magnetic suspension". They are magnetic shocks. The shocks are the only things that can be adjusted electronically.

The mag shocks only work well, if:
1 - The rest of the suspension (geometry, springs, anti-roll bars, attach points) also works well.
2 - Their programing is done well.

Ford just started using magnetic shocks. GM (and its subsidiaries) invented the technology and have been using it and learning to tun it for the better part of a decade - on Corvette, Camaro, CTS-V, ATS-V, etc.

Who do you think has a better chance of getting it right?

 

[thill444]

If I get a Mustang I am leaning towards getting magenetic ride option. These guys do some amazing work:
http://www.dscsport.com/

Highly recommend their tuning options for magnetic shocks, pretty big difference vs the OEM GM programming on the C7 and other cars.

 

[EcoVert]

Yeah because Motor Trend just didn't just pick the gt350r the winner against the ZL1 head-to-head even though the ZL1 beat it in every performance category.

It's not a Mustang it's a Shelby :lol:

 

[EcoVert]

Explain how MT picked the GT350R over the ZL1 then in the last Mustang/Camaro head to head...

No really one out of how many head to heads just ain't right

 

[thill444]

Edmunds did a head to head, but much less focus on performance and probably a little more real world in terms of most buyers:



Carlos Lagos preferred the Camaro for driving dynamics and performance. The other guy preferred the Mustang because it was a better daily driver and still offered the fun factor for driving.

The Mustang was just a Premium 10 speed with some other options but no PP1/PP2 and I personally think the manual would have been more engaging/fun to drive.

I think it really sums up a lot of the discussion here.

 

[Baron95]

If I get a Mustang I am leaning towards getting magenetic ride option. These guys do some amazing work:
http://www.dscsport.com/

Highly recommend their tuning options for magnetic shocks, pretty big difference vs the OEM GM programming on the C7 and other cars.

Did you use their canned tune, or did you change parameters yourself?

I'm told it is pretty tricky to tune.

Thanks.

 

[morgande]

There are a lot of misconceptions here as to how the "magnetic suspension" works and what it can do.

First, there is no such thing as "magnetic suspension". They are magnetic shocks. The shocks are the only things that can be adjusted electronically.

The mag shocks only work well, if:
1 - The rest of the suspension (geometry, springs, anti-roll bars, attach points) also works well.
2 - Their programing is done well.

Ford just started using magnetic shocks. GM (and its subsidiaries) invented the technology and have been using it and learning to tun it for the better part of a decade - on Corvette, Camaro, CTS-V, ATS-V, etc.

Who do you think has a better chance of getting it right?

People might use magnetic suspension when referring the socks. Doesn't mean they don't know what it means or how it works.

A magnetic shock is an active shock. That means I can adjust how it compress and rebounds dynamically. Your point about springs, rollbacks, etc is a given and therefore moot. Do you really think Ford is shipping a product with a defective or incorrectly working suspension?

Your point about programming however is spot on. Magnetic shocks are only as good as the programmer who configured them. However, Ford has shown themselves to be capable at programming the magnetic supen..shocks...in the GT350 and GT350R cars. So we HAVE seen applications of this tech done correctly by Ford.

As I stated earlier, Ford did not take the application of a magnetic suspen...shocks...seriously in the Ford GT PP as they did with the GT350 and its R brother. This was not an oversight, it was by design. I think had they not done this, the GT would be more performant with respect to Camaro.

Also, point of clarity, just because product A loses to product B in category XYZ does not mean the product A is faulty as whole in said category. It just means it doesn't perform as well as B. If I line up a GT350 with a Dodge Demon and run a 1/4 mile the GT350 will loose. Its not as fast as a demon. However, that doesn't mean the GT350 is slow. Its quite a performer, just not on the same level as the Demon in that category. The 18 GTPP is a performer. Its better than the car it replaces from a year ago. But it's not as good as SS 1LE. That doesn't make it a bad car, but nor does it excuse the loss either. With a magnetic suspen...shocks...the car COULD have performed better and STILL maintained the GT comfort factor in non track settings. Ford left that food on the table, and that is my criticism.

 

[millhouse]

People might use magnetic suspension when referring the socks. Doesn't mean they don't know what it means or how it works.

A magnetic shock is an active shock. That means I can adjust how it compress and rebounds dynamically. Your point about springs, rollbacks, etc is a given and therefore moot. Do you really think Ford is shipping a product with a defective or incorrectly working suspension?

Your point about programming however is spot on. Magnetic shocks are only as good as the programmer who configured them. However, Ford has shown themselves to be capable at programming the magnetic supen..shocks...in the GT350 and GT350R cars. So we HAVE seen applications of this tech done correctly by Ford.

As I stated earlier, Ford did not take the application of a magnetic suspen...socks...seriously in the Ford GT PP as they did with the GT350 and its R brother. This was not an oversight, it was by design. If so, I think the GT would be more performant with respect to Camaro.

Also, point of clarity, just because product A loses to product B in category XYZ does not mean the product A is faulty as whole in said category. It just means it doesn't perform as well as B. If I line up a GT350 with a Dodge Demon and run a 1/4 mile the GT350 will loose. Its not as fast as a demon. However, that doesn't mean the GT350 is slow. Its quite a performer, just not on the same level as the Demon in that category. The 18 GTPP is a performer. Its better than the car it replaces. But its not as good as SS 1LE. That doesn't make it a bad car, but nor does it excuse the loss either. With a magnetic suspen...shocks...the car COULD have performed better and STILL maintained the GT comfort factor in non track settings. Ford left that food on the table, and that is my criticism.

Bingo!

 

[Baron95]

However, Ford has shown themselves to be capable at programming the magnetic supen..shocks...in the GT350 and GT350R cars. So we HAVE seen applications of this tech done correctly by Ford.

I disagree with that. The GT350 specifically can't get out of the way of a similarly sized, cheaper Camaro 1LE with a lot less power, and costing a lot less.

Is not a matter of being "defective" or "incorrect". It is a matter of how good it can be on track while meeting a design point for road comfort.

I think both the GT350 as well as the Ford GT fall short on handling compared to cheaper GM products. It all comes down to experience and development budget. GM cumulatively has spent a lot more hours and a lot more $$$ tuning magnetic shocks than Ford.

 

[1320']

I disagree with that. The GT350 specifically can't get out of the way of a similarly sized, cheaper Camaro 1LE with a lot less power, and costing a lot less.

Is not a matter of being "defective" or "incorrect". It is a matter of how good it can be on track while meeting a design point for road comfort.

I think both the GT350 as well as the Ford GT fall short on handling compared to cheaper GM products. It all comes down to experience and development budget. GM cumulatively has spent a lot more hours and a lot more $$$ tuning magnetic shocks than Ford.

TIL the GT350R didn't actually beat the Z/28 in comparisons, despite being cheaper with MRC.

Try again, kiddo.

 

[morgande]

I disagree with that. The GT350 specifically can't get out of the way of a similarly sized, cheaper Camaro 1LE with a lot less power, and costing a lot less.

The same argument can be made comparing the GT350R to the ZL1. How one has more power yet we know who won that comparison.

I think both the GT350 as well as the Ford GT fall short on handling compared to cheaper GM products. It all comes down to experience and development budget. GM cumulatively has spent a lot more hours and a lot more $$$ tuning magnetic shocks than Ford.

While your entitled to your opinion, I can’t see where this post has any factual merit. The GT350 is magical. Period. It’s sum is greater than its parts, and you never hear anyone praising any Camaro like they did that GT350. As for the Ford GT, it won Le Mans first time out. It best the best from Ferrari. Last I remember no GM product even finished the race. Car and Driver just ran the GT at VIR and it set the record. They were faster than even the Porsche 918.

I have tremendous respect for what GM has brought to the peformance table over the years. They have a very good Racing program and compete and win. But less not get carried away. GM has nothing on the GT and never will. They don’t have that kind of pedigree.

 

[Ohthatguy]

I think a shrink would have a field day with the guys who're way too into this us vs them shit when it comes to "rival" car brands.

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