PMAS Intake Systems from UPR Products. TUNE AND NO TUNE INTAKES

[PonyGrrrl]

This is awesome, I was just talking to my local performance shop about CAI today when I picked up my car from this weeks round of mods. They were surprised when I told them that CAIs require a tune on the S550, mine is the first newer generation Mustangs they've modded. I mentioned that I was hoping for something like this, a nice bump in HP without a tune. I will be ordering one. Is there a forum discount code?

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[mustang_guy]

This is awesome, I was just talking to my local performance shop about CAI today when I picked up my car from this weeks round of mods. They were surprised when I told them that CAIs require a tune on the S550, mine is the first newer generation Mustangs they've modded. I mentioned that I was hoping for something like this, a nice bump in HP without a tune. I will be ordering one. Is there a forum discount code?

thats a big enough reason in itself to avoid that shop.

 

[PonyGrrrl]

thats a big enough reason in itself to avoid that shop.

That's a kind of douchie attitude, it's actually a great shop and they mod cars all day long. They also do work on Bentleys, Jags, Mazerattis, Vettes, Camaros, trucks, marine, and plenty of older generation Mustangs. I grew up around car guys, my uncle is ASE certified as are two of his sons, one owned his own shop and I spent a lot of time at my cousin's shop and have been watching guys wrench cars since I was a little kid. I know these guys very well and they are enthusiasts, I've watched them build a few race cars and they do great work. I trust them to do all of the work on my car and they take very good care of my car. If they can work on exotics then surely they can handle a Mustang.

 

[Blk2015GT]

A recalibrated MAF with a revised transfer function and a 120 mm tube could absolutely have gains of this magnitude. Notice that the big gains are where a lower restriction would matter the most: at high engine speed & wot. Read the thread, absorb the science, engineering and testing that went into the product and you'll come out more knowledgeable. Don't deny it's possible just because no one else's intake can do it. We'd never have any progress in the world if everyone thought that way.

Equally if people didn't question things logically there would be a lot of suckers in the world from unscrupulous products.

While there is a bigger tube, the throttle body is the restrictor at a certain point. Is it in this case? Idk

It's like pouring water through a funnel, the bottom of the funnel (the throttle body) can only handle so much volume even with a larger cone top portion until the bottom of the funnel need to get bigger too.

There is no "ram air" effect here forcing the extra air to the opening of the throttle body either (the inlet in the grill is also stock size so the same volume) since it's an open box (no pressure).

 

[BmacIL]

Equally if people didn't question things logically there would be a lot of suckers in the world from unscrupulous products.

While there is a bigger tube, the throttle body is the restrictor at a certain point. Is it in this case? Idk

It's like pouring water through a funnel, the bottom of the funnel (the throttle body) can only handle so much volume even with a larger cone top portion until the bottom of the funnel need to get bigger too.

There is no "ram air" effect here forcing the extra air to the opening of the throttle body either (the inlet in the grill is also stock size so the same volume).

The idea is to design an air intake where the throttle body is the bottleneck...

 

[Blk2015GT]

The idea is to design an air intake where the throttle body is the bottleneck...

And I get that but if you truly believe that Ford (with hundreds of years of engineering experience on staff) under-engineered the already cheap plastic intake purposely by 23hp, that's just crazy talk. If it was this easy to make 23hp and 15ft lbs with the same ECU tune and jut altering the MAF sensor, Im pretty sure Ford would've done it by now.

Just like Gibson and Magnaflow claiming 30hp with their catback right? Must be true because a self-serving graph said so

If this tech was this rock solid why hasn't Ford, GM etc not tried to buy out PMAS for $100 million. I mean hell if you dont have to redesign/re-tool an engine for a refresh and just tweak the MAF and $.05 plastic tube to get almost 25hp for all of your models, then that's WELL worth $100 million.

I have yet to see a non self-serving dyno pull by someone disinterested in the product or not profiting from selling the product. If something sounds too good to be true.....

 

[BmacIL]

And I get that but if you truly believe that Ford (with hundreds of years of engineering experience on staff) under-engineered the already cheap plastic intake purposely by 23hp, that's just crazy talk. If it was this easy to make 23hp and 15ft lbs with the same ECU tune and jut altering the MAF sensor, Im pretty sure Ford would've done it by now.

Just like Gibson and Magnaflow claiming 30hp with their catback right? Must be true because a self-serving graph said so

If this tech was this rock solid why hasn't Ford, GM etc not tried to buy out PMAS for $100 million. I mean hell if you dont have to redesign/re-tool an engine for a refresh and just tweak the MAF and $.05 plastic tube to get almost 25hp for all of your models, then that's WELL worth $100 million.

I have yet to see a non self-serving dyno pull by someone disinterested in the product or not profiting from selling the product. If something sounds too good to be true.....

They didn't under-engineer anything. They engineered to a set of targets and found the lowest cost way of getting there. I know, I worked in powertrain engineering there. As I stated in another thread, the engine systems and calibration engineers give the air induction engineers pressure drop and temperature rise over ambient for various conditions and then the air induction engineers design an intake to hit that. They don't go above and beyond that just because. In addition to that, Ford has pretty strict packaging guidelines that many of these intakes don't meet (doesn't mean you'll have an issue with your intake, though). The PMAS in particular, relocates the degas bottle.

 

[mustang_guy]

That's a kind of douchie attitude, it's actually a great shop and they mod cars all day long. They also do work on Bentleys, Jags, Mazerattis, Vettes, Camaros, trucks, marine, and plenty of older generation Mustangs. I grew up around car guys, my uncle is ASE certified as are two of his sons, one owned his own shop and I spent a lot of time at my cousin's shop and have been watching guys wrench cars since I was a little kid. I know these guys very well and they are enthusiasts, I've watched them build a few race cars and they do great work. I trust them to do all of the work on my car and they take very good care of my car. If they can work on exotics then surely they can handle a Mustang.

Whatever you say, been working in the auto industry for 3 decades and been modding cars slightly longer. You say whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better. If you go back to my post youll see 3 people thanked the post already. Obviously im not alone in my thought. If you want to ignore the thoughts of someone with my experience thats fine. Its not my car. Wish id have said nothing now. Everyone wants to add tone to text that isnt there on these forums. :frusty:

 

[EcoSwag1990]

I've taken my S550s to 3 different performance shops depending on what I needed and all of them have worked on dozens of them.

I too would like to see this intake go on an independent dyno

 

[3beeps]

It would be SO easy to prove it with a time lapse video of a before/after intake dyno or something along those lines.

Either these companies have no idea how to properly market their product or their product doesn't meet the advertised numbers.

 

[sk8erord]

It would be SO easy to prove it with a time lapse video of a before/after intake dyno or something along those lines.

Either these companies have no idea how to properly market their product or their product doesn't meet the advertised numbers.

Someone buy me one and I'll gladly take it to my local dyno shop and do a before and after, then we'll know for sure, lol.

 

[dev1360]

FWIW, I talked with my tuner about this intake. I am very interested, and have been for a while. He has worked with many PMAS MAF housings/sensors on everything from Honda street cars, to full on race cars. He admits they are very nice pieces, and his interest was piqued by this intake. He and I are both impressed with the stock unit on this car, and at my level (Flex fuel and mufflers) I am not moving enough air to out-run the stock intake.

When I asked him about this CAI, and told him about the recalibrated MAF included here is the conversation:


"Well it's a 'tuned MAF' and that's where it's getting the power from. It alters load factoring and that increases timing and such."

I told him that they didn't change the tune at all and I didn't understand. Here is his reply:

"The ECU reads mass air flow in periods per second. If the signal from the MAF is scaled/tuned/altered, the periods change and the ECU's load calculations are altered causing the car to run at a lower load and running more timing."

He encouraged me to find a used one and buy it so we could test it on the dyno and log it in the tune.

We are still curious, but I'm not quite spending my money just yet. Regardless of the above, it's a much better unit purely by design than a lot of the junk out there. I just thought I'd share what someone with direct and specific knowledge had to say about the subject of dyno number gains with "no tune".

 

[PonyGrrrl]

I appreciate your concerns and advice and apologize for my tone in my previous comment. I was fired up over something else and lashed out here. I get what you're saying and where you are coming from. I'm very happy with the quality work they do and that's what counts. I am totally comfortable with them. i just re read my post from before I went to bed and I guess I had a few too many cocktails when I posted last night and that's not what I meant so I now I am a little embarrassed and wanted to clarify.

I don't want to tune my car and didn't think there were any no tune CAIs available and hadn't looked in a while. The shop mentioned a CAI and I said I didn't want a tune, they said I can get one without a tune. When I told them the only CAI I heard didn't require a tune for S550s was Roush and I don't want a Roushe CAI. They were surprised there aren't any CAIs that don't require a tune.

Again, I apologize for my attitude earlier and I agree that if they don't know that CAI requires a tune I would avoid the shop like the plague.

 

[foghat]

I appreciate your concerns and advice and apologize for my tone in my previous comment. I was fired up over something else and lashed out here. I get what you're saying and where you are coming from. I'm very happy with the quality work they do and that's what counts. I am totally comfortable with them. i just re read my post from before I went to bed and I guess I had a few too many cocktails when I posted last night and that's not what I meant so I now I am a little embarrassed and wanted to clarify.

I don't want to tune my car and didn't think there were any no tune CAIs available and hadn't looked in a while. The shop mentioned a CAI and I said I didn't want a tune, they said I can get one without a tune. When I told them the only CAI I heard didn't require a tune for S550s was Roush and I don't want a Roushe CAI. They were surprised there aren't any CAIs that don't require a tune.

Again, I apologize for my attitude earlier and I agree that if they don't know that CAI requires a tune I would avoid the shop like the plague.

There are a few that don't require a tune. Airaid and Steeda have ones.

 

[PonyGrrrl]

There are a few that don't require a tune. Airaid and Steeda have ones.

Thanks! I'm gonna check them out.

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