Upgraded Wastegate Actuator

[evan546]

I HIGHLY recommend tuning if you have changed the turbo etc.
Its probably constantly in limp mode.

I was told by vargas that i can run stock tune. Cant i just switch out the wastegate?

I got an overboost code today it must be the wastegate correct?

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[EnFOURcer]

I was told by vargas that i can run stock tune. Cant i just switch out the wastegate?

I got an overboost code today it must be the wastegate correct?

Correct.
With a 15 psi IWG, you are double the stock unit with no tuning to support it = not good.

 

[evan546]

I HIGHLY recommend tuning if you have changed the turbo etc.
Its probably constantly in limp mode.

I was told by vargas that i can run stock tune. Cant i just switch out the wastegate?

I got an overboost code today it must be the wastegate correct?

 

[Busser48]

I was told by vargas that i can run stock tune. Cant i just switch out the wastegate?

I got an overboost code today it must be the wastegate correct?

I would contact Adam at tune plus, isn't he the one doing the tunes for those turbos???

 

[evan546]

So installing my old wastegate will solve this issue?

 

[Busser48]

So installing my old wastegate will solve this issue?

Again, contact Adam at tune plus. Aren't you running Accessport
???

 

[Datalux]

Ok, If you use same pressure WGA, there no tune needed but question is why do that.

Reason to do that is if the WGA is providing faster spool and more HP at lower/mid RPM, due to better dynamics of the spring or device as a whole, then that's great for a DD, street vehicle. CAI = 7hp vs. WGA = 20-30HP, for the price, WGA all day long! I just want to make sure I'm not going to Ecoboom anything or significantly decrease performance, which is why I'm asking the questions. If there's a trade off and it's negligible I.e. Larger FMIC (temp) vs. pressure drop, then I'm cool with that.

The whole reason to use a higher WGA is so the spring tension is higher and less chance of leaking when back pressure at turbine increases. This should fatten up boost , making it more contant.

Probably best would be in 12-15lb so you get a decent amount of pressure added and then you will need tune to lower duty cycles on boost electronic valve . As has been noted by others these cars use throttle and boost to control load/TQ ,its not just boost .

That makes perfect sense once I tune, just not ready/able to spend the $1300+ required to join the club and not looking for bragging rights or top end max HP at the track, just looking to improve where i drive which is 2500-5500 RPM. I have no desire to increase boost, just move a small portion of it if it's safe.

Here interesting info from acesstuner goes into detail on this.

https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wiki/display/PRS/Ford+Tuning+Guide

Great!! Thanks!

Edit: I mean Freaking Awesome!! https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wiki/display/PRS/EcoBoost+Wastegate+Strategy+Addendum

 

[evan546]

Again, contact Adam at tune plus. Aren't you running Accessport
???

Unfortunately no i have an X4

 

[Busser48]

Unfortunately no i have an X4

Then maybe torrie at unleashed? If you spent that money on a Vargas stage 1 and you aren't tuning it, I don't think you are getting the proper use out of it. Plus what supporting mods are you running?? I.e intercooler??? Again if you spent the money you should do it right or you might be the next one on here saying your ecoboost went boom and you don't know why

 

[Datalux]

Just as I stated above.

As with installation of most any performance enhancing product, custom tuning will allow you to extract the maximum potential gains.

Now, there are many many people who do not wish to go as far as tuning their vehicle. They want simple bolt-on products that will enhance their performance in one aspect or another. This segment of the market is much larger than the people looking to go "all out".

Agreed 100%

So why a 7psi IWG?
The OEM actuator has a net result and the action of a 7 psi setup. It actually has a much softer spring and they pre-load the hell out of it to achieve this result. This also reduces the amount of stroke available which has other boost control implications.

By going with a different spring combination (with a higher rate of progression) and less pre-load than the OEM to achieve the same net result, we can realize an increase in spool-up response and more power under the curve without over-shooting what the ECU is wanting to see as a result.
Peak boost numbers end up being mostly the same but the curve is quite different.
The ECU's built in "nannies" (safeties) do have a window of tolerance and the ECU does its thing and all is good.

I assumed the Stock WGA had a weaker progression then the TS WGA, thus the ability to hold more boost at lower RPM's. To be clear, pre-loading is actually pre-tensioning the spring which might cause a 7 psi spring to crack at 6-5 psi, correct?...or does it have more to do with the progression of the spring once it cracks. I.e. pre-tension response vs. non-pre-tension response. (Not a spring guy, but it seems once you overcome the intital tension (pre-load?), the spring compresses easier/faster)

If the ECU was so locked down that any changes in power and response would initiate a code or problem, they would not be able to sell these cars and things like fuel octane/quality, elevation, weather, etc all effect how the motor behaves. This "window of tolerance" is what allows us to mod these cars.

This is fast becoming a reality, I work in the aftermarket O.E. sector and it's harder and harder to make products that meet the O.E./CARB guidelines and restrictions. O.E.'s usually "calibrate" (tune) for the products we make, but sometimes it's back to the drawing board.

The 10psi IWG (and higher ratings) goes one step further. Now you are able to completely manipulate the curve and extract maximum performance out of that turbo. Tuning is indeed recommended to keep the nannies at bay.

Here is a dyno graph of the differences to be had versus stock -
http://cdn.speednik.com/files/2015/06/iwg75vsstock-640x494.jpeg

All great info, thanks! I'm assuming this (graph) is the 10psi spring. That's exacly what I'm looking for, a smoother boost curve that comes on earlier and lasts longer. However with all the LSPI talk I'm leary of bringing on too much boost at lower RPM's, I have an Auto w/3.55. Read in the other thread of someone going to a 17 psi spring, Yikes, I'm not that brave.

So-side question, how do you know when you've exceeded the max efficiency of the turbo and you're generating more heat than clean boost at a given RPM? (my understanding is that turbo's have an efficiency range)

 

[evan546]

Then maybe torrie at unleashed? If you spent that money on a Vargas stage 1 and you aren't tuning it, I don't think you are getting the proper use out of it. Plus what supporting mods are you running?? I.e intercooler??? Again if you spent the money you should do it right or you might be the next one on here saying your ecoboost went boom and you don't know why

Im aware that i spent the money but i was told by vargas before i bought my turbo that i could run ot on stock tune untill i can get enough for an AP3 i am 100% aware that i am not extracting any potential power from the turbo but i just want to drive the car with the stock tune.

 

[Busser48]

Im aware that i spent the money but i was told by vargas before i bought my turbo that i could run ot on stock tune untill i can get enough for an AP3 i am 100% aware that i am not extracting any potential power from the turbo but i just want to drive the car with the stock tune.

I gotcha, but now you are having issues correct???

 

[Busser48]

And did u contact Vargas? What are they saying? If not I would shoot Adam a PM he can still help you figure out your issue, he's really good at answering questions and pinpointing problems from afar

 

[EnFOURcer]

Agreed 100%
I assumed the Stock WGA had a weaker progression then the TS WGA, thus the ability to hold more boost at lower RPM's.

Correct and it holds off the higher rpm "tail-off"

be clear, pre-loading is actually pre-tensioning the spring which might cause a 7 psi spring to crack at 6-5 psi, correct?...

Kind of the opposite. Pre-loading keeps increases the valves seat pressure.

it have more to do with the progression of the spring once it cracks. I.e. pre-tension response vs. non-pre-tension response. (Not a spring guy, but it seems once you overcome the intital tension (pre-load?), the spring compresses easier/faster)

Opposite

is fast becoming a reality, I work in the aftermarket O.E. sector and it's harder and harder to make products that meet the O.E./CARB guidelines and restrictions. O.E.'s usually "calibrate" (tune) for the products we make, but sometimes it's back to the drawing board.

Yep, getting harder every day

great info, thanks! I'm assuming this (graph) is the 10psi spring. That's exacly what I'm looking for, a smoother boost curve that comes on earlier and lasts longer. However with all the LSPI talk I'm leary of bringing on too much boost at lower RPM's, I have an Auto w/3.55. Read in the other thread of someone going to a 17 psi spring, Yikes, I'm not that brave.

Correct that is a 10psi IWG. That car is tuned and the graphs are results before and after the IWG swap.

-side question, how do you know when you've exceeded the max efficiency of the turbo and you're generating more heat than clean boost at a given RPM? (my understanding is that turbo's have an efficiency range)

Power will not go up much even though you have increased the boost.
IAT is also a good indicator.

 

[PRG3k]

I was told by vargas before i bought my turbo that i could run ot on stock tune untill i can get enough for an AP3 i am 100% aware that i am not extracting any potential power from the turbo but i just want to drive the car with the stock tune.

You realize the car's engine management is going to be confused and working overtime to fight you every step of the way until you tune it.

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