GT350R vs 6th Gen Z/28

[JohnnyUtah]

Do they have the $ to do it AND, are you willing to pay $70k for a Camaro again?

Not many people were willing to before... I'm not seeing it happening. Hopefully they'll be smart enough to keep the carbon ceramics an option and stick with the 6 pots which will be enough if they lightweight the car some more.

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[JohnnyUtah]

They're not. I'd hazard to say more people, on the whole, have picked up GT350's for MSRP than have paid any ADM. The ADM issue is amplified on this site because a few enthusiasts have struggled to find a "reasonable" deal. The dealer I took delivery of my R from did a MSRP deal for a member of this site just a few weeks ago.

Yeah... here in socal that doesn't seem to be the case from what I've found. Realistically it would be nice to get 4k off sticker like most other American cars, but I'm not holding my breath for that

 

[Process]

That I did not think of :(

I was gettin' frightened of an honest GM DOHC in a new LT5.

The Alpha platform is very interchangeable. However, any changes to the front section and rails would need equal attention to the rest of the car.

I'm thinking a Dry Sump LT1 or, Chevy will begin the generational changes in the LT1 (LT2 and LT3). This is most likely the case...

Look at the gains from LS2 to LS3, apply that to the LT1 and that is a good guess.

LT2= 475-480hp
Dry Sump LT2= Maybe 10-15 more?

That's the z28...

I honestly do not see the Z28 having less than 500hp, GM is going to try and murder the GT350R with this vehicle.

 

[thePill]

I honestly do not see the Z28 having less than 500hp, GM is going to try and murder the GT350R with this vehicle.

Then there needs to be a more logical answer.

An LT2 type upgrade may get 30hp, that's good for 485. The dry sump maybe 10-15, 500 on the dot. It's not enough...

Next would be to reduce the displacement of the LT1 to a familiar and marketable number AND using the lighter weight and track friendly EcoTech? Then again, can the z28 absorb zl1/1LE equipment while taking on a new drivetrain and staying below $70,000?

A dry sump LT1 at 465hp... cheaper... but it would fit into the $45,000-$55,000 range and be eaten by anything with a GT on it (possibly even an upcoming MGTR if there is demand. Seems Ford is getting GT350 equipment ready for the GT like I suggested they would.

If Ford carries on with a competition GT (MGTR), it will cause a lot of issues for the Camaro in general.

Ford only really needs an R Package for the GT and this small SS/1LE advantage is gone.

 

[1320']

They had it before Ford went to the 4.6 2v/4v in the early 90s,.

A technicality...but GM did not develop the LT5 completely in house, in-fact the majority of the design and engineering work was not a GM project, Lotus did it with some input from GM. The building of the motor was then contracted out to Mercury Marine and sent to Bowling Green to be put into the ZR1's. This is also the business arrangement that led to MRC going into GM vehicles, again after being developed by Lotus.
Contrasting this to Ford who designed and built the modular family motors completely in-house.

GM (and to an extent Ford) is very good at taking technologies, concepts and such and developing them, but failing to give credit where credit is due to the original sources and yet claiming it for themselves.

 

[Childs Play]

A technicality...but GM did not develop the LT5 completely in house, in-fact the majority of the design and engineering work was not a GM project, Lotus did it with some input from GM. The building of the motor was then contracted out to Mercury Marine and sent to Bowling Green to be put into the ZR1's. This is also the business arrangement that led to MRC going into GM vehicles, again after being developed by Lotus.
Contrasting this to Ford who designed and built the modular family motors completely in-house.

GM (and to an extent Ford) is very good at taking technologies, concepts and such and developing them, but failing to give credit where credit is due to the original sources and yet claiming it for themselves.

Are car companies bound by some rule book where they are supposed to tell everyone exactly how they sourced and made every part..?

 

[1320']

Everyone always thinks what they have is better.

A lot of Mustang guys constantly bashed IRS until they got it. Although to be fair some of them still bashed it after they got it. Lol

I'd prefer it for drag racing though so I can't blame them. The 5th gen Mustang was a screamer in the quarter mile. That being said the IRS is just about better in any other application except for serious off-roading. Even that can be debated though, and I doubt we are going to be taking Mustangs down the Rubicon trail anytime soon.

Stock for stock, the IRS makes for a more compliant street car and more comfortable ride.

However, when properly built, a SRA car is just as capable, if not more so, than an IRS car of similar build.

Example:

Take a S197 Coyote Brembo car. Now give it a watts link, torque arm, upgraded shocks and sways and better rubber...it would rip a GTPP a new one without even blinking, it would likely kick the ever loving crap out of a 1LE too.

 

[1320']

Are car companies bound by some rule book where they are supposed to tell everyone exactly how they sourced and made every part..?

When you cite them as beating Ford to market with an OHC motor, yes I would expect honesty as to *where* they got it.

In professional research and journalism you're expected to cite your sources and explain where you developed a concept from, auto companies should be no different.

 

[bdavies011]

An LT2 type upgrade may get 30hp, that's good for 485. The dry sump maybe 10-15, 500 on the dot. It's not enough...

I wouldn't be so sure of that. HP isn't everything. While we know it will never happen, I'd put money on an LS7, 6th Gen Alpha Z/28 outpacing a GT350R around almost any track.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

I honestly do not see the Z28 having less than 500hp, GM is going to try and murder the GT350R with this vehicle.

You know, I know, we all know there's more to the overall performance equation than just peak HP - but I would think (and agree with you) - if for nothing else than a pure marketing standpoint, GM can't reduce the HP from the model.

If a Z/28 is released, and if it [most likely] stays NA, I'd figure at least a 20-25HP bump from the previous model to 525-530. That would once again fit nicely into the model tiers (455 > 525 > 640). However, that's either a big jump in displacement or some kind of other mojo like OHC, which is why that LT5 rumor is so interesting (and picks up on the LTx naming convention again).

 

[Childs Play]

When you cite them as beating Ford to market with an OHC motor, yes I would expect honesty as to *where* they got it.

In professional research and journalism you're expected to cite your sources and explain where you developed a concept from, auto companies should be no different.

I didn't cite anything. That was someone else. Although, you could be just saying that as a generalization.

Also, does any of this really matter? As long as the vehicle I buy works and does what I expect it to do they could build it out of rocks from Jupiter for all I care.

 

[bdavies011]

However, that's either a big jump in displacement or some kind of other mojo like OHC, which is why that LT5 rumor is so interesting (and picks up on the LTx naming convention again).

Big jump in displacement from what? Not from the LS7.

I could see a 7.0L DI LT5/7 making 535hp. But I'm kinda leaning more towards a 5.5 DOHC for some reason.

Still though, both of these engines would likely be introduced first in the z/28 and not the Vette, which seems odd. :shrug:

 

[1320']

I didn't cite anything. That was someone else. Although, you could be just saying that as a generalization.

Also, does any of this really matter? As long as the vehicle I buy works and does what I expect it to do they could build it out of rocks from Jupiter for all I care.

Yeah it was just as a generalization, not a specific instance

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Big jump in displacement from what? Not from the LS7.

I could see a 7.0L DI LT5/7 making 535hp. But I'm kinda leaning more towards a 5.5 DOHC for some reason.

Still though, both of these engines would likely be introduced first in the z/28 and not the Vette, which seems odd. :shrug:

A big jump from the current motor, i.e., the LT1 (since the LS7 isn't an option any longer).

In our "less displacement" climate, I kind of don't see another 7.x liter motor being offered. You're right, just projecting the HP from 6.2L to 525-535 would be ~7.1L, though that would be reasonably easy to achieve with slightly less CI (and it's not exactly linear anyway).

The thing that would really surprise me is what you pointed out: a brand new premium engine option premiering in a car other than the Corvette. The GS just came out, clearly positioned between the standard C7 and the Z06, there was a perfect chance to offer a new engine, and it doesn't even come out till mid-MY17. I can't imagine having that kind of lead time in their roadmap with the Z/28 targeted for the same MY and the latter having some new 500+ OHC engine.

My prediction: the Z/28 is going to follow the GS pattern, and that will be a ZL1 but with an NA LT1 motor (like the GS is a Z06 with an LT1).

 

[Voodooo]

I honestly do not see the Z28 having less than 500hp, GM is going to try and murder the GT350R with this vehicle.

Horsepower doesn't win this race. Even torque. This was proven with the last z28 having more tq then the gt350. And don't think the new z28 would be any lighten then a GT350R. If GM wants to compete with the gt350R then they need to ditch the carbon brakes and make smart moves. GM cannot and will not beat the bargain gt350R msrp. No way no how. Period.

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