mt82 so what is happening?

[grue]

first, sorry to all those with issues...

ok, so my mt82 (this on the '13 gt) really notchy for the duration of a 15 min ride through town... after that sometimes i head out for a country-ride, 30-40 miles of keeping revs above 3k, bursts up to 6k for shifting and just generally fun driving (albeit mostly in a strait line) well everything is now really warmed up and the shifts are amazingly smooth. even when i'm back in town driving 25-35mph and shifting at around 2k or 2500 rpm.

so what is happening - is it simply that the oil is hotter and thus at the thick end of things?

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[evo8904]

What oil do you have in it?

 

[grue]

just the standard factory fill.

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[brandonsmash]

FWIW, switching my trans fluid to Royal Purple smoothed out the shifting of my MT82 tremendously.

 

[grue]

no, so my question was "what is happening", i'm just trying to understand why it's so much better after really getting things going. notchy to me is not necessairly a bad thing, it doesn't mean there's something wrong. i find if i take care when it's cold and shifting at lower rpms, it's still notchy but OK. my old car was like this as well. my old old car was like it as well, they were all notchy. to me that terms means it comes out one gate without any feedback, but goes into the next gate up with a feeling of clicking in from whatever is underneath the gate itself. it's a "sharp" feeling, a "click" feeling. no grinding etc.. i'm never rushed when i shift driving around town and things are not "warmed up" because to me, that'll produce a more pronounced protest of going into the next gear. it's not a problem or anything like grinding etc...

but, like i said, after taking it out and warming it up for a while, it just becomes smooth and slides into the next upper gear almost like it's flowing into that gear... maybe a hint of resistence as it passes the threshold. imagine rolling a castered cart with 100lbs on it over an elevator threshold. now, imagine laying down a 1/4" piece of hard rubber mat and rolling the cart over that... a hint of the bump from the gap but way smoother and easier.

so is it just that the fluid warms up and becomes more viscous? i guess it seems like that's why... just don't know a lot about transmission gears.

actually - so anyone who's put different oil in, does what i describe sound like what you've experienced? has anyone who has changed oils, experienced what i experienced on this and previous car with mt82?

 

[brandonsmash]

What is actually happening is that as the oil heats the viscosity drops, meaning that it is better able to coat the moving bits of the transmission more effectively: It's being carried along by surface tension easier, and it is doing a better job of reducing gear impact and stiction via lubrication.

 

[grue]

ha ha! so i was on the right track then. so what i described about the cart over the elevator threshold... is that basically what it felt like in difference between factory fluid and going aftermarket?

the whole thing was always kind of uncertain to me because i've never seen a definition of notchy so i made one up or a description of what type of difference there was... thanks for you patience!

 

[evo8904]

Just swap the fluid bro. I was running RP but thinking about switching to amsoil.

 

[grue]

why? when it warms up it's freaking awesome!

 

[evo8904]

why? when it warms up it's freaking awesome!

Because it is even better with RP or Amsoil in it:doh:

 

[Jmeo]

Just swap the fluid bro. I was running RP but thinking about switching to amsoil.

Why are you thinking of switching? I have RP at home ready to go and have been debating Amsoil as well but why are you not satisfied with RP?

 

[AMP-D]

We have had very good results with Mobil 1 ATF mixed with SyngearII in the MT82.

 

[dev1360]

I had a long conversation with GM engineers at Camaro fest last year about this exact topic. Specifically the same issues in the TR6060.

Newer transmissions have very tight tolerances. As the heat builds and the fluid becomes more viscous it's able to get into the blocker rings and do its job. Tolerances also open slightly as it warms.

They specifically noted many people trying to go to different fluid for better feel when the Trans is cold. While the newer synthetics made it "feel better", they took away the blocker ring's ability to do its job at WOT. Lots of Camaro/corvette guys tore up their synchros and dog teeth by switching to aftermarket fluid. (The grass isn't ALWAYS greener lol)

Fluid choice depends heavily on blocker ring material and tolerances. Aftermarket fluid may do a better job, I don't know. I'd love to pick the ear of a Getrag/Ford engineer about this topic. The Internet can be a scary cesspool of misinformation.

 

[AMP-D]

I had a long conversation with GM engineers at Camaro fest last year about this exact topic. Specifically the same issues in the TR6060.

Newer transmissions have very tight tolerances. As the heat builds and the fluid becomes more viscous it's able to get into the blocker rings and do its job. Tolerances also open slightly as it warms.

They specifically noted many people trying to go to different fluid for better feel when the Trans is cold. While the newer synthetics made it "feel better", they took away the blocker ring's ability to do its job at WOT. Lots of Camaro/corvette guys tore up their synchros and dog teeth by switching to aftermarket fluid. (The grass isn't ALWAYS greener lol)

Fluid choice depends heavily on blocker ring material and tolerances. Aftermarket fluid may do a better job, I don't know. I'd love to pick the ear of a Getrag/Ford engineer about this topic. The Internet can be a scary cesspool of misinformation.

The problem with a lot of synthetic fluids is that it reduces friction so much, the synchronizer rings cannot properly wipe the fluid off the cone in time to engage the gear without resulting in a grind.

As for the MT82, its an old platform used in the Ford Transit that dates back to the early 2000s. It uses a multi piece synchronizer ring package lined with material not well suited for high rpm shifting. When it is subjected to extreme heat, it tends to blue the steels and in some cases weld itself to the steel portion of the ring. This results in complete failure of the ring.

Ford uses a heavy fluid to attempt to mask the horrible clunking and gear operational noise the MT82 is prone to have. The downside to it is that the shift quality of the unit, especially when the fluid is not at operational temperature, sucks. A thinner fluid such as ATF does a much better job at improving shift quality at all temps but doesn't do as well at masking the noise issue.

 

[dev1360]

The problem with a lot of synthetic fluids is that it reduces friction so much, the synchronizer rings cannot properly wipe the fluid off the cone in time to engage the gear without resulting in a grind.

As for the MT82, its an old platform used in the Ford Transit that dates back to the early 2000s. It uses a multi piece synchronizer ring package lined with material not well suited for high rpm shifting. When it is subjected to extreme heat, it tends to blue the steels and in some cases weld itself to the steel portion of the ring. This results in complete failure of the ring.

Ford uses a heavy fluid to attempt to mask the horrible clunking and gear operational noise the MT82 is prone to have. The downside to it is that the shift quality of the unit, especially when the fluid is not at operational temperature, sucks. A thinner fluid such as ATF does a much better job at improving shift quality at all temps but doesn't do as well at masking the noise issue.

You seem to know what you're talking about based on this, and your other posts. What fluid has worked best for you on these transmissions?

It's hard to find many people that actually know anything about these transmissions. I come from the vette world where the rear diff is the same way. Lots of voodoo and dogma, and not much actual information.

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