Ecoboost blocks

[Livernois Motorsports]

Not to "lower the boom", BUT:

WHY LMS​

What makes Livernois different from the competition, and why do we feel so strongly about our products? Simply put, we pride ourselves on putting in the extra time to engineer and design packages and products that will do more than just meet the requirements; we want to exceed those requirements in every possible way.

At Livernois Motorsports we take great pride in the fact that we offer something engineered and designed to be the best for a given application. Unlike our competition we don’t use off the shelf parts for engine builds. In most cases we have our own parts that are engineered and designed to go above and beyond what other companies offer with off the shelf parts. A great engine is designed with each and every part built to work in conjunction with the other components. Just selecting a piston off the shelf and sticking it with a rod and piston doesn’t cut it.

Most of our competitors use off the shelf parts, which isn’t a knock on the components, they’re usually adequate for most applications. At Livernois Motorsports though, good enough or adequate isn’t acceptable. We take our decades worth of engine building, racing, design and engineering experience, and we leverage that knowledge, experience and expertise to design and build engines that go far above and beyond just being adequate.

Every aspect of our engines and their components are carefully thought out and designed to work as a package. We develop our own piston, rod, crankshaft, fasteners, and much more, right in house. We sometimes we work with leading manufacturers in the racing industry to have these designs developed into finished components. This means when you buy a Livernois engine, you’re not buying a bunch of off the shelf parts that have just been “assembled”, you’re buying a meticulously crafted precision engine with custom designed components built from decades of racing and engineering knowledge.

The Livernois Pro Series product line is built for customers who are looking for products that offer a no compromise approach. The components and services used in these products are in most cases custom designed proprietary parts that are based off of years of development and the latest in racing technology. These proprietary designs and parts are available only through Livernois Motorsports. Each and every product in the Pro Series line has been developed and tested in a rigorous R&D process to produce only the highest quality most durable products on the market. The extensive design time that goes into making a product for the Pro Series line involves a complete and systematic approach to the entire product and its lifecycle. Each part is designed and tested to work together as a system to maximize power and durability.

The Livernois Pro Series line of products includes parts from industry leaders in their fields such as Manley, Callies, ARP, Carillo, Diamond, Ross and Clevite to name a few. Every aspect of the design, testing and final product machining and assembly are handled in house. This allows for complete control of the entire process start to finish. The latest in technologies are used in the design and testing of these products and components, including FEA (Finite Element Analysis), CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics), as well as some of the latest CNC and CAD technologies available.

Livernois is also able to offer custom engines for a wide variety of applications. Our decades of experience in racing, coupled with our extensive engineering background, gives us a great wealth of knowledge to work from in designing a custom engine. We’ve won championships in pretty much every form of racing, including NMRA, IHRA, SCCA, SCORE, Baja Truck, Pikes Peak, Hydroplane, Sprint Car, Circle Track, Outlaw Drag Racing, and many more.

Whatever the platform and application, we can design and engineer a package that will exceed in every aspect. Our in house development team will work to engineer the engine package and components required to ensure that the engine is as durable as it can be, while making the power needed to win.

Every engine is built completely in-house, with machine work taking place on our CNC block machine center, and then in our custom engine machine shop. Cylinder heads are developed in-house, and digitized in-house before being CNC ported on our CNC porting machines. Every aspect of the engine build is handled internally, and controlled from start to finish by our team of experts.

Do you want a completely custom build to whatever specs you want? No problem that is why we have a Custom Engine Build Form

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[ronv95]

Most of our competitors use off the shelf parts, which isn’t a knock on the components, they’re usually adequate for most applications. At Livernois Motorsports though, good enough or adequate isn’t acceptable.

Don't you rebrand motor parts like you guys do other parts? Like that CAI for example...

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Don't you rebrand motor parts like you guys do other parts? Like that CAI for example...

The vast majority of engine components that we use are our own custom proprietary versions. Over the last decade or so we've been able to develop a very large number of our own components through our continued and ongoing engine development program. This development comes from a variety of different sources, including racing engine work, our own internal development, as well as OEM partnerships where we work with and develop for the larger OEM companies. We've devoted a serious amount of resources over the years towards producing higher quality, and better components than what you can find off the shelf. This isn't to say that shelf parts are bad, but in the applications we predominantly build for, and for the customers that want to achieve higher performance, and better durability, this is why we spend so much time working on developing better components. We've seen the various types of failures that can occur when shelf parts are pushed beyond their limits, and we specifically design these components to be able to hold up in those types of scenarios.

While we utilize a lot of the big companies for production of some of our components, they are almost always a development partnership, where we take and design the component based on the data we have, and then have that company produce that component for us. Some parts might only have a small number of tweaks to a design, while other parts are completely designed and built from scratch to match our specifications. Pistons, rods, crankshafts, studs, camshafts, valvetrain components, etc. are all components that we source our own propietary versions of based on designs that we've worked with the manufacturers on.

 

[dragonacc]

The vast majority of engine components that we use are our own custom proprietary versions. Over the last decade or so we've been able to develop a very large number of our own components through our continued and ongoing engine development program. This development comes from a variety of different sources, including racing engine work, our own internal development, as well as OEM partnerships where we work with and develop for the larger OEM companies. We've devoted a serious amount of resources over the years towards producing higher quality, and better components than what you can find off the shelf. This isn't to say that shelf parts are bad, but in the applications we predominantly build for, and for the customers that want to achieve higher performance, and better durability, this is why we spend so much time working on developing better components. We've seen the various types of failures that can occur when shelf parts are pushed beyond their limits, and we specifically design these components to be able to hold up in those types of scenarios.

While we utilize a lot of the big companies for production of some of our components, they are almost always a development partnership, where we take and design the component based on the data we have, and then have that company produce that component for us. Some parts might only have a small number of tweaks to a design, while other parts are completely designed and built from scratch to match our specifications. Pistons, rods, crankshafts, studs, camshafts, valvetrain components, etc. are all components that we source our own propietary versions of based on designs that we've worked with the manufacturers on.

You guys doing anything with the head and cams on the Mustang EB yet? The Ford Racing cams aren't much of an upgrade and the head flows like crap stock...

 

[Kjewer1]

+1 for CNCWerx. He did my block last spring. FFtec internals. Machine work and assembly done by my usual guy that does all of my DSM race motors. I assembled it and swapped it in. You definitely need some specialized tools and knowledge to do this right, but it's a really fun motor to build. I'm looking forward to doing another one soon.

 

[Tamadrummer88]

What would install costs be like? Seriously considering sending my car to either FFtec or Full Race and getting a built shortblock put in and then just use my other existing hardware. Then later ill go bigger turbo.

 

[Brianh922]

What would install costs be like? Seriously considering sending my car to either FFtec or Full Race and getting a built shortblock put in and then just use my other existing hardware. Then later ill go bigger turbo.

I got a quote from CP-E for installation of a short block and it was right at $2000. They quoted for 15 hours of labor, parts and two oil changes(one for break in). That also included installation of my Full-Race turbo kit which is basically free, since they would have to take any turbo out and put it back in. So you could probably use that number as a guide for any reputable shop...I plan on going with the block Adam is going to offer through CNCwerx.

 

[Tamadrummer88]

I got a quote from CP-E for installation of a short block and it was right at $2000. They quoted for 15 hours of labor, parts and two oil changes(one for break in). That also included installation of my Full-Race turbo kit which is basically free, since they would have to take any turbo out and put it back in. So you could probably use that number as a guide for any reputable shop...I plan on going with the block Adam is going to offer through CNCwerx.

That doesn't sound too bad actually. so figuring 2500-3k for the shortblock and another 2k for install. so about 5k. That's not too bad. Id rather have everything fortified now so later when I get the cash again ill get a bigger turbo.

 

[Kuronos]

After getting the full race kit I'm really thinking about building block to be safe.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

You guys doing anything with the head and cams on the Mustang EB yet? The Ford Racing cams aren't much of an upgrade and the head flows like crap stock...

There is actually a great reason why those cams are basically stock. The room that is engineered at the top of the motor does not allow for larger cams, relocated or larger HPFP metering system. So because of this the cams and/or metering system have to remain basically stock. The only way that this would be able to change is if you were to use a completely different top end, which at this point is not an option...unfortunately. Increasing the flow of the stock heads will not amount to much either as you cannot take advantage of a larger/better/more aggressive cam profile.

+1 for CNCWerx. He did my block last spring. FFtec internals. Machine work and assembly done by my usual guy that does all of my DSM race motors. I assembled it and swapped it in. You definitely need some specialized tools and knowledge to do this right, but it's a really fun motor to build. I'm looking forward to doing another one soon.

There are 5 tools that you have to engineer, because they literally just don't exist in the "wild". We learned this VERY early on, but because we were the only ones that had ever been inside of the motor (ATT) we never mentioned it.

What would install costs be like? Seriously considering sending my car to either FFtec or Full Race and getting a built shortblock put in and then just use my other existing hardware. Then later ill go bigger turbo.

Honestly, you might as well replace all of your hardware at that point. You are making an investment already at that point, you might as well. If not, you are either going to pay for a lot of the same labor twice, or you yourself are going to be redoing a lot of the same work that you have already done.

After getting the full race kit I'm really thinking about building block to be safe.

That is a great plan! If you are trying to do the DD/"repeated acceleration test car" application you really do need a shortblock that is going to be able to take the repeated abuse. The open deck architecture of all the EB cars do not like the additional boost and RPM. Another area of concern are the fasteners. These areas are usually the among first to lead to or cause failure. That is why we engineered proprietary parts like our deck brace, sleeves, head and main studs!

 

[Kuronos]

There is actually a great reason why those cams are basically stock. The room that is engineered at the top of the motor does not allow for larger cams, relocated or larger HPFP metering system. So because of this the cams and/or metering system have to remain basically stock. The only way that this would be able to change is if you were to use a completely different top end, which at this point is not an option...unfortunately. Increasing the flow of the stock heads will not amount to much either as you cannot take advantage of a larger/better/more aggressive cam profile.




There are 5 tools that you have to engineer, because they literally just don't exist in the "wild". We learned this VERY early on, but because we were the only ones that had ever been inside of the motor (ATT) we never mentioned it.



Honestly, you might as well replace all of your hardware at that point. You are making an investment already at that point, you might as well. If not, you are either going to pay for a lot of the same labor twice, or you yourself are going to be redoing a lot of the same work that you have already done.




That is a great plan! If you are trying to do the DD/"repeated acceleration test car" application you really do need a shortblock that is going to be able to take the repeated abuse. The open deck architecture of all the EB cars do not like the additional boost and RPM. Another area of concern are the fasteners. These areas are usually the among first to lead to or cause failure. That is why we engineered proprietary parts like our deck brace, sleeves, head and main studs!

Thank you for your advice, I will be a DD. I'm really just trying to run the car safely with all the extra power and trying to stay within 500 whp range. What exact parts would you recommend upgrading?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

If I wanted a setup that made that power on a DD I would do:
New shortblock w/deck brace and sleeves
head studs
and main studs.

That is about as much hardcore part precaution as you can get. From there on out it is on your tune/tuner to keep it together. A bad tune can break anything, no matter how overbuilt your car is. Just an FYI, not throwing any type of shade.

 

[stang77]

If I wanted a setup that made that power on a DD I would do:
New shortblock w/deck brace and sleeves
head studs
and main studs.

That is about as much hardcore part precaution as you can get. From there on out it is on your tune/tuner to keep it together. A bad tune can break anything, no matter how overbuilt your car is. Just an FYI, not throwing any type of shade.

I know many people on here have achieved great numbers. In you opinion what is the maximum hp/tq you would push on the stock engine? Just trying to get a sense for it. Depending on funds available I will be doing a turbo kit.

 

[Sup3rPat]

MAP shortblock sleeved w/ I Beams @ $6100 and cp-e install @ $2000 plus the 7k I already put in puts me at 15k... Sometimes I feel I should of went the GT route... Oh well, do you guys think 6100 for short block is a good price? Its what Im leaning towards but I don't see any other companies listing prices for me to compare it too. So far MAP has been giving me the best deals but it would be nice to see some more competitive prices since this will be my most expensive upgrade.

 

[Brianh922]

MAP shortblock sleeved w/ I Beams @ $6100 and cp-e install @ $2000 plus the 7k I already put in puts me at 15k... Sometimes I feel I should of went the GT route... Oh well, do you guys think 6100 for short block is a good price? Its what Im leaning towards but I don't see any other companies listing prices for me to compare it too. So far MAP has been giving me the best deals but it would be nice to see some more competitive prices since this will be my most expensive upgrade.

It's a bit much if you ask me...Plus you still have to pay to send them the block. Especially since the price on CNCWerx's block is much lower with the same options. Talk with Adam about it.

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