Yet another f***ed up alignment?

[BugsOli]

Hello everyone, I'm opening yet another alignment thread as I went back to my stock suspension in order to pass the yearly inspection here in Belgium (yes they are that stupid regarding mods here, if they are not installed by a proper shop with all the homologated papers )

The context: I have a manual European Ecoboost Premium, which if I recall correctly has some of the Performance Package installed (basically all European Mustangs have the Performance Package, or part of it, such as suspension and bigger brakes).

Last week I went back to the stock coils from the Eibach Pro-Kit (installed by myself last year) as I had to pass the yearly inspection here in Belgium.
While installing the stock coils in the rear, I installed the Steeda Alignment dowels at the same time, to make sure my rear was centered.
Inspection went flawlessly, passed in under 20 minutes, which means I'm good for one more year (yeah it's a yearly thing).

After inspection, I went to a tire shop to do an alignment because I wanted to make sure everything was good and I wanted to reclock my steering wheel properly (it was a little bit to the left when the front wheels were straight, and I hated it)

Since the alignment, the ride is WAYYYYYY worse: the steering wheel is now straight but when driving I feel like my rear wants to go its own way, it's a weird feeling, especially when I turn I feel like the rear is much more "snappy" and wants to oversteer! It's like the car body is not straight even though the front tires are straight... I feel it in the driver seat, but I can't see it when facing the car....

Here are the numbers I got after the alignment, the guy did the measurements with his database but did not select the Performance Package, therefore I think he messed up badly:

FRONT CAMBER

LEFT	RIGHT
-1.06°​	-1.15°​

FRONT CASTER

LEFT	RIGHT
6.53°​	6.53°​

FRONT TOE

LEFT	RIGHT
0.00°​	0.00°​

REAR CAMBER

LEFT	RIGHT
-1.52°​	-2.00°​

REAR TOE

LEFT	RIGHT
0.07°​	0.06°​

I believe these numbers are not good at all when looking at the BMR numbers or even Ford's own numbers.... everything is closed here tomorrow for Easter therefore I need to wait until Tuesday to go back to the shop and complain...

I would appreciate all the input I can get here guys...

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[bnightstar]

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I believe these numbers are not good at all when looking at the BMR numbers or even Ford's own numbers.... everything is closed here tomorrow for Easter therefore I need to wait until Tuesday to go back to the shop and complain...

I would appreciate all the input I can get here guys...

I think the shop did great job the numbers look great what in them you don't like ? Besides I don't think it's your alignment. The OEM rear springs have a tendency to add very annoying bounce in the rear of the car. And maybe this is what you are feeling. Very noticeable over bumps. Also is it possible that you didn't tighten all the bolts correctly when returning the OEM springs ?

 

[WD Pro]

How about thrust angle, did they give you that value ?

I'm no expert, but I have read that having it at zero is very important for our chassis (and it can induce symptoms like you are describing).

Here is what I am going to use :

WD

 

[kz]

With those toe numbers, thrust angle is fine.

Thus alignment looks good, camber could be more even but with where the toe is, I'd leave it this way. There isn't a whole lot of difference between PP and non-PP aligment specs so no reason to be worried about it.

 

[WItoTX]

Did you clock the bushings front and rear?

Your alignment looks fine. The tech should have balanced your rear camber, I would take it back specifically be cause he did a half ass job on the camber. Those should match. The tech doing your alignment was lazy or inexperienced.

 

[galaxy]

How about thrust angle, did they give you that value ?

I'm no expert, but I have read that having it at zero is very important for our chassis (and it can induce symptoms like you are describing).
WD

You are correct, and matching toe on the rear will give you zero. It doesn't matter what the actual number is, a match side to side will accomplish the zero. His being off by .01° doesn't amount to anything a mere mortal would ever in a million years notice.

I agree with @bnightstar , those numbers are not that bad. Probably could have done a little better job getting the rear camber closer match, but...

A tiny bit of toe in on the front can add some stability, but 0 is not a bad place to be. The rear toe is not as much as spec, but there is rear toe in, which is good. Hard to say.

Do you think it's possible you've forgotten what the stock car rides like? And now going back to stock just highlights the way it might have been?

 

[BugsOli]

So I went back to the garage to redo the rear... I've asked to follow the Performance package settings and you're right he did not know where to change the rear camber, even though it was described on his screen!
He adjusted the toe on both sides but did not adjust the camber and now the car runs straight but when turning left, the rear right tire spins and it feels not really stable at high speed.
They definitely don't know how to adjust these cars, it's a nightmare here...

The new values for the rear are:

REAR CAMBER

LEFT	RIGHT
-1.50°	-1.55°

REAR TOE

LEFT	RIGHT
0.10°	0.09°

The thrust angle comes out at 0.01°

For the front however, he did not do anything but check the toe but now I feel less stable up front...
FRONT CAMBER

LEFT	RIGHT
-1.09°	-1.17°

FRONT CASTER

LEFT	RIGHT
6.48°	6.42°

FRONT TOE

LEFT	RIGHT
0.01°	0.01°

All in all, I think I should get less camber in the rear if I follow BMR's specs, so this is something I will have to address and I should address the front AGAIN!

I forgot to say that I've installed Steeda's IRS subframe bushing system but only in the front of the rear cradle as I could not get the rear to slide in (I will have to remove the plate supporting the bushing so I can try again): could that also impact the drivability?

To @bnightstar : yes I've rechecked that all the rear bolts were torqued properly (129 & 41 fb-lbs)
To @WItoTX : what do you mean "reclock" the bushing? I've installed both Steeda alignment kit and only the front IRS subframe bushing support as I could not get the rear underside to slide in (will address that soon)
To @galaxy : well after 1 year with the Eibach Pro-Kit, it definitely rides differently but not like it used to... it's just sloppy and I'm afraid of taking roundabouts (we have PLENTY here in Europe) too fast, even when the road is dry
To @WD Pro : yes I've printed that sheet and asked him to align on these specs, but I guess he was in a "hurry" so he didn't want to touch too much... I'll go to another shop or put my Eibach back if I can't find a solution

Thanks all of you for your great input so far! I believe I will find the correct settings but I'm afraid it's gonna take some back-and-forth action

 

[NightmareMoon]

Why are you not happy with it? What are you expecting? Did you give them specific numbers or just tell them to align it? That last alignment looks very precise.

rear camber at 1.5 is good. Less isn’t really better, but it depends on your goals. Front camber isn’t adjustable w/o aftermarket parts. The new rear toe is better, front toe is good at zero (which is the factory spec).

 

[galaxy]

Again, your alignment isn’t causing any issues. That last set of numbers is actually pretty darn good.

 

[bnightstar]

did you by any chance checked your rear wheel hubs what you are describing could be a wheel hub issue.

 

[djcodeman]

So I went back to the garage to redo the rear... I've asked to follow the Performance package settings and you're right he did not know where to change the rear camber, even though it was described on his screen!
He adjusted the toe on both sides but did not adjust the camber and now the car runs straight but when turning left, the rear right tire spins and it feels not really stable at high speed.
They definitely don't know how to adjust these cars, it's a nightmare here...

The new values for the rear are:

REAR CAMBER

LEFT	RIGHT
-1.50°	-1.55°

REAR TOE

LEFT	RIGHT
0.10°	0.09°

The thrust angle comes out at 0.01°

For the front however, he did not do anything but check the toe but now I feel less stable up front...
FRONT CAMBER

LEFT	RIGHT
-1.09°	-1.17°

FRONT CASTER

LEFT	RIGHT
6.48°	6.42°

FRONT TOE

LEFT	RIGHT
0.01°	0.01°

All in all, I think I should get less camber in the rear if I follow BMR's specs, so this is something I will have to address and I should address the front AGAIN!

I forgot to say that I've installed Steeda's IRS subframe bushing system but only in the front of the rear cradle as I could not get the rear to slide in (I will have to remove the plate supporting the bushing so I can try again): could that also impact the drivability?

To @bnightstar : yes I've rechecked that all the rear bolts were torqued properly (129 & 41 fb-lbs)
To @WItoTX : what do you mean "reclock" the bushing? I've installed both Steeda alignment kit and only the front IRS subframe bushing support as I could not get the rear underside to slide in (will address that soon)
To @galaxy : well after 1 year with the Eibach Pro-Kit, it definitely rides differently but not like it used to... it's just sloppy and I'm afraid of taking roundabouts (we have PLENTY here in Europe) too fast, even when the road is dry
To @WD Pro : yes I've printed that sheet and asked him to align on these specs, but I guess he was in a "hurry" so he didn't want to touch too much... I'll go to another shop or put my Eibach back if I can't find a solution

Thanks all of you for your great input so far! I believe I will find the correct settings but I'm afraid it's gonna take some back-and-forth action

those numbers look good

 

[BugsOli]

So, sorry for not responding to all of you guys, I have been to busy with work and had to drive the Puma, aka the Pocket Rocket for these last weeks.
Today I've finally found the time to install the last piece of the Steeda rear IRS kit, the ones that insert under the bushing...which, I think, was the cause of my problems!
Since the front of the cradle was installed with the Steeda parts, it has less compliance than the rear of the cradle, therefore behaving weirdly when turning and accelerating at the same time.
I will know for sure the next time I take the Mustang out for a spin this week, we shall see!
Pictures for reference:

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