Will 2018 have a more responsive engine?

[Z_Rocks]

With higher compression and Direct Inject, will the engine be more responsive and crisper than the current model?

For example, I had tested Corvette with lower compression and rail injectors and the C7, and even when standing still, you rev the C7, it responds to giving gas more rapidly than the previous gen.

So, do you think the 2018 will be crisper and more responsive? This will make a great N/A DD car.

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[AmericanLegend]

Bumping the compression from 11.0 to 12.0
Plus the DI/PI fueling changes.
I'd say, absolutely the 2018 will be a bit more responsive.

Ford engineer is saying that the Crank is the only carry over part between the 2nd vs 3rd Gen Coyote. I find that hard to believe though.

 

[Z_Rocks]

Bumping the compression from 11.0 to 12.0
Plus the DI/PI fueling changes.
I'd say, absolutely the 2018 will be a bit more responsive.

Ford engineer is saying that the Crank is the only carry over part between the 2nd vs 3rd Gen Coyote. I find that hard to believe though.

The crank part is also interesting. Since the 2018 can rev higher, I thought they would make changes to crank due for having higher rev.

If they didn't change the crank, I wonder how Ford went about increasing compression?

 

[Coyote Red]

I had the 2014 3.7 and when I installed the DSS aluminum drive shaft the throttle response was better, or was it just in my head?

 

[Z_Rocks]

I had the 2014 3.7 and when I installed the DSS aluminum drive shaft the throttle response was better, or was it just in my head?

It does help. For example if you switch to aluminum flywheel, you also notice a quicker rev.
That's why many road racers switch to Carbon Fiber DSS and flywheel for quick responds to revs, coming out of corners, like GT350 revs so much freely.

 

[Coyote Red]

Right, my 2016 coil on plug setup is ok, but down the line I'll want better throttle response for coming out of the corners on track. I'll buy another aluminum shaft for the GT but am still doing research. The direct injection demands catch cans on both sides I'd believe. Upping the HP from 435 to 455 won't hurt either? All we can do is experiment.

 

[Norm Peterson]

The crank part is also interesting. Since the 2018 can rev higher, I thought they would make changes to crank due for having higher rev.

Not necessarily, outside of perhaps closer tolerances. Balancing issues are still resolved at the flywheel/flex plate and harmonic balancer (which you'd perhaps expect to be different)

If they didn't change the crank, I wonder how Ford went about increasing compression?

Different piston crown shape (less dish or more dome), different piston compression height, smaller combustion chamber volume in the head, thinner head gaskets, reduced piston deck clearance, maybe even different valve head shape. DI injection might have ended up adding a small boss inside the head, and the DI injectors themselves could either add to or subtract (slightly) from combustion chamber volume.


Lightweight flywheels benefit full performance once you're underway (like you would be at a track day). The give-back is a trickier launch because the "missing" mass that helps you when you're already moving isn't there to help you get rolling under light throttle without stalling.


Norm

 

[Z_Rocks]

Thanks Norm!

 

[arghx7]

How are you defining throttle response? It's a perception thing. Pedal mapping? Low engine speed torque? Free revving in neutral?

 

[West TX GT]

I think the driveline mush adds substantially to throttle response. It would be nice if they improved that but I doubt it.

 

[Sasuketr]

What Ford is actually doing is not ordinary for a mid cycle refresh. If you look at the 2011 to 2014 models that was totally different. Maybe Ford came to the conclusion that its time for the current 5.0 coyote to retire. However s550 being a new platform, why didn't they introduce the new 5.0 on 2015 is questionable. They knew the platform would gain weight and the competition would get tougher.

The answer is all marketing. Instead of power, they focused on handling with the irs and flat plane crank voodoo engine. In all honesty, s550 should have came out with the upcoming 5.0 and on 2020 they could introduce whatever the next gen was. It could have been fine even they adopted the gt350 intake manifold with the intake and call it the mid refresh 2018 mustang, but they didn't. I m surprised, since that would have been a cheaper solution for the update. Maybe they were not happy with the result or reliability. Lot of current s550 owners are using that manifold.

Anyways, the new engine should be more responsive but what i m really curious about is the torque output. Knowing how heavy the car is, and im guessing it got heavier with the new tech stuff, it really needs more torque. It is really hard to believe the engine is almost all new and will be out for at least 3 years till the S650 comes out.

 

[Jay-rod427]

The throttle response or lack of is all in the tune...

 

[Norm Peterson]

The throttle response or lack of is all in the tune...

Not entirely true.

Even revving in neutral, the amount of flywheel + pressure plate rotational inertia matters. If it didn't, there would be no performance increase from (or business case for) lightweight flywheels and small-diameter dual/triple disc clutches.


Norm

 

[Jay-rod427]

Splitting some serious hairs dude.

 

[Norm Peterson]

10 lbs extra on the flywheel & PP is at least 5 ft*lbs (in the lower gears) that no tune on the planet will ever be able to find for you. Dual-mass flywheels aren't going to be light. Dual-disc clutches could end up with a lower rotational inertia if the diameter is kept small enough.


Norm

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