Whipple Gen3 2.9L Dyno Results

[gqneon]

Honestly I don't understand the disbelief. I have had two S550's in the last two years. The first being a 2015 manual with the G2, Stage 2, 2.9 Whipple with 3.625", headers with cats, 72# injectors, Whipple tune and made 765 rwhp on pure 93 octane. This is pretty common knowledge these cars are making this power with this setup. I now have a 17 automatic setup exactly the same and put down 747. Its not unreasonable the better flowing, more efficient G3 would put the 15 manual car over 800 rwhp and the 17 auto very close. This is not smoke and mirrors or false advertising it is completely legit. Let me make one more statement to prove my point.

I just got done building my buddy's 16 manual. Its a stage 2, Gen 2 2.9, 3.625", 72# injectors, Upgraded HE, headers with cats and a Whipple tune but with cam timing tweaked on pure 93 octane gas, no additives and this is the results. First pull is with completely stock Whipple tune, second is with said tune but cam timing adjusted





I built this car personally and drove it to the dyno personally so I am sure what I am saying is accurate. Why is it so hard to believe the G3 will push it over 800 rwhp? Now, this is under perfect dyno conditions, 60º no humidity but still this is what it made. I get it, its dyno numbers not track tested but what Whipple is saying is their G3 car has made over 800 rwhp on a tune with modified cam timing and pure 93 octane ON A DYNO.

+1 to this guy, Lethal and Whipple SC.

I think having three folks post similar numbers running 93 in different places on different days says volumes. I've got a Gen2 I just bolted on my second 2015 GT auto a month or so ago (the day my Gen2 blower arrived was THE DAY you announced the Gen3 release for $200 - I'm still salty Terry or Whipple didn't let me know so I could've done it!) - but my Gen 2 is stout and my last car was a ProCharger and Lund had timing pulling on mine after 5k on 93 too. I had knock issues on ProCharger as well that I'm simply not having on my Whipple.

I haven't read the whole thread yet but I got two pages into it and don't understand why everyone's jumping on the guys posting dynos and saying it didn't happen - I say congrats that's awesome guys and congrats on your car making sick power! I hope mine will make something similar!

:cheers:

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[Whipple SC]

Lol i dont think you understand what a hail marry dyno run or quarter mile pass does to push products or allow vendors to claim they make the most HP or run the fastest times.

Some will go through great lengths to stake their claims

It's people like you who thinks they know more than everyone else. You have zero, I mean zero idea about the test, the results, what we've found, what our dealers have found. ZERO. Yet you are acting as if you have exact knowledge. You don't even have one of our SC's!

We've been in biz now 30 years, approaching 31. You think we did that with the smallest marketing budget in the business, tiny margins, most likely the lowest? Or did we do it by building the best damn product for the money, pushed the market to greater levels and continue to improve? You want to talk about Lethal 3 years ago? Do you know how many updates we've done since that point? We evolve and continue to make power, its our nature. We don't sit on something and count the cash, we develop, test, develop, test and make better and better products. The day I know something is better, I push it to market. The Gen 3 is significantly better than the Gen 1 or 2, coupling that with the massive inlet, intercooler and heat exchanger, big power can be had on pump gas.

 

[Whipple SC]

How about 93, 110 and E85?

Now were talking!!

Why, the question is on 93, don't need E85 and new fuel system, or 110 that will fail the O2's.

 

[olaosunt]

I think I am might wait on the Gen 4.(looking at putting one on my GT 350 to keep from being by embarrassed by those damn A10 18's )
Lol
It's sure going to badder than the 3 because "more is always better " and 4>>>3.

It sure is a good time to be a mustang guy with all these options .
I would get one of everything ----just don't have enough cash ....and have a wife and kidss.

 

[gearhead2685]

OK from now on ill believe everything i see on the internet and never question anything.

Umm hey guy if you would read my posts ive asked time and time again for more info about the setup.

Show me where i said it was impossible.

Heres what blows my mind even further. You guys refuse to support the gen5 on the 2015 2017 gen2 coyote.

I mean gee if the 2.9 gen3 is so badass then i guess the world would come to a screeching halt if you actually put a 3.0 gen5 on.

NEVER once have i trashed the hardware but questioned the use of 93 thats it.

So how about that injector duty cycle and timing info that ive asked for over amd over again that would be pretty tell tale aboht this 800 plus hail marry pump gas 93 setup....

 

[gearhead2685]

Why, the question is on 93, don't need E85 and new fuel system, or 110 that will fail the O2's.

Fair enough. If the numbers hold up on 93 then yes fuel system and likely a new short block would be next up.

 

[Whipple SC]

Instead of going on a rant wheres the info on THIS setup then?

Injector duty cycle%? Timing? Those 2 especially since this is all about the pump 93.

Pretty common and expected for people to ask these things yet other than we did it or weve done this youve stated pretty much zero about the setup other than.

Poof 800+ on 93......

Honestly i could care less what the little arbitray boost number says as you mentioned weather alone car change that.

What matters most is the "health" of the engine so to say such as Injector duty cycle, is that on the ragged edge or maxed out?

How about timing how much can it advance?

Healthy engines and good tunes crank up the timing. Engines that are not pull timing to compensate for various reasons. Junk fuel being one of them. Not saying 93 is junk but E85 is better ovviously.

Sooner or later there gets to be diminishing returns and some not all but some setups will be better off running more timing instead of just tossing a smaller pulley on the blower amd calling it a day.

The. again NONE of that matters if fuel system cant keep up.

What does Inj DC have to do with the power? At this level, Inj DC is 90% without a BAP as fuel psi is falling.

Timing, 20deg's at the top of the engine RPM, it was adding 2 over nominal of 18 at the top of the RPM. Lambda was .78-.80.

How much can it add, as we've said before, it can add 4 deg by itself, it can retard 4 before any subtractors come into equation.

I think many are confused on the calibration process. We don't calibrate like aftermarket. The calibration is done at every 2 deg of cam movement at ever 250rpm, steady state (includes all 4 cams). That is mapped at stoich and PE. The boarderline, all 29 tables are mapped that way based off cam position. It is then run from -20 to 115 deg F with that boarderline table to come up with the optimum curve.

The knock system is recalibrated and tested using development PCM's with faster logging so we can isolate noise from knock and when to look for knock as we have a much narrower window than a NA car.

What does all this mean? We are not guessing at timing/air fuel, cam position, torque, etc. It's mapped just like stock which is very different than using aftermarket tools.

 

[gearhead2685]

I think I am might wait on the Gen 4.(looking at putting one on my GT 350 to keep from being by embarrassed by those damn A10 18's )
Lol
It's sure going to badder than the 3 because "more is always better " and 4>>>3.

It sure is a good time to be a mustang guy with all these options .
I would get one of everything ----just don't have enough cash ....and have a wife and kidss.

I could be wrong but i havnt seen or heard of any gen4 coming for the fords.

Whipple went 2.9 gen3 for the 2015 -2017s and gen5 3.0 is coming for the 2018+

:shrug: Who knows maybe the gen4 will come out ut i woukdnt hold my breath if considering they wont supoort the 3.0 gen5 for the 2015 2017s.

 

[Whipple SC]

OK from now on ill believe everything i see on the internet and never question anything.

Umm hey guy if you would read my posts ive asked time and time again for more info about the setup.

Show me where i said it was impossible.

Heres what blows my mind even further. You guys refuse to support the gen5 on the 2015 2017 gen2 coyote.

I mean gee if the 2.9 gen3 is so badass then i guess the world would come to a screeching halt if you actually put a 3.0 gen5 on.

NEVER once have i trashed the hardware but questioned the use of 93 thats it.

So how about that injector duty cycle and timing info that ive asked for over amd over again that would be pretty tell tale aboht this 800 plus hail marry pump gas 93 setup....

Certainly don't need to believe everything but calling us a liar because its 93 octane doesn't help.

It's been said on here:
2017 Manual, 3.50" pulley, Kooks LT, Gen 3 SC, good weather, 5th gear pull, Borla cat back, custom cal, 93 octane. Other mods, McLeod clutch, custom wheels/tires and some other bolt on parts for suspension.

You keep talking about a hail mary pass, but this is just a regular dyno pull. Don't need much prep when its cold outside.

 

[gearhead2685]

What does Inj DC have to do with the power? At this level, Inj DC is 90% without a BAP as fuel psi is falling.

Timing, 20deg's at the top of the engine RPM, it was adding 2 over nominal of 18 at the top of the RPM. Lambda was .78-.80.

How much can it add, as we've said before, it can add 4 deg by itself, it can retard 4 before any subtractors come into equation.

I think many are confused on the calibration process. We don't calibrate like aftermarket. The calibration is done at every 2 deg of cam movement at ever 250rpm, steady state (includes all 4 cams). That is mapped at stoich and PE. The boarderline, all 29 tables are mapped that way based off cam position. It is then run from -20 to 115 deg F with that boarderline table to come up with the optimum curve.

The knock system is recalibrated and tested using development PCM's with faster logging so we can isolate noise from knock and when to look for knock as we have a much narrower window than a NA car.

What does all this mean? We are not guessing at timing/air fuel, cam position, torque, etc. It's mapped just like stock which is very different than using aftermarket tools.

First of all thank you geezus were getting somewhere.

I asked about injector DC and the fuel system because i expected and others have expected that fuel system to be at or damn close to maxed out on 93.

So indeed fuel system is indeed next to be addressed to push this kit any further.

 

[gearhead2685]

Certainly don't need to believe everything but calling us a liar because its 93 octane doesn't help.

It's been said on here:
2017 Manual, 3.50" pulley, Kooks LT, Gen 3 SC, good weather, 5th gear pull, Borla cat back, custom cal, 93 octane. Other mods, McLeod clutch, custom wheels/tires and some other bolt on parts for suspension.

You keep talking about a hail mary pass, but this is just a regular dyno pull. Don't need much prep when its cold outside.

:frusty: show me where i said that. Ive questioned the numbers on 93 thats it.

let me suggest you start over at page 1.

 

[olaosunt]

What does Inj DC have to do with the power? At this level, Inj DC is 90% without a BAP as fuel psi is falling.

Timing, 20deg's at the top of the engine RPM, it was adding 2 over nominal of 18 at the top of the RPM. Lambda was .78-.80.

How much can it add, as we've said before, it can add 4 deg by itself, it can retard 4 before any subtractors come into equation.

I think many are confused on the calibration process. We don't calibrate like aftermarket. The calibration is done at every 2 deg of cam movement at ever 250rpm, steady state (includes all 4 cams). That is mapped at stoich and PE. The boarderline, all 29 tables are mapped that way based off cam position. It is then run from -20 to 115 deg F with that boarderline table to come up with the optimum curve.

The knock system is recalibrated and tested using development PCM's with faster logging so we can isolate noise from knock and when to look for knock as we have a much narrower window than a NA car.

What does all this mean? We are not guessing at timing/air fuel, cam position, torque, etc. It's mapped just like stock which is very different than using aftermarket tools.

Okay ...I am sold !
I want my power now ! Screw the GT 500 "unicorn "
It's going to be too expensive anyway even before ADM's ...if it ever shows up .
I could probably add a Whipple to the GT 350 and pick up an A10 18 with new roush blower all for less than what the GT 500 would cost .Lol
...and have all the flavors on my cake ..and eat it .
NA is for the birds anyway .

Question for Whipple .The GT 350 kit comes with the Whipple tune right ?
What pulley( says TBD) and how much power to expect ?

If it's not enough (since more is always better) I can always do a custom tune/e85 later.....and keep a "spare" built Voodoo block on stand by .

 

[Vernichtung]

:frusty: show me where i said that. Ive questioned the numbers on 93 thats it.

let me suggest you start over at page 1.

He may be referring to this post:

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2060298&postcount=67

 

[Faceme]

I think its crazy how much the coyote can put down on the dyno. 800 whp about 900 crank. Props!! But like other mentioned before, reliability would be my only issue. I'd probably swap out the vulnerable parts of the engine, then I may be able to punch it more with my mind at ease.

If I could get a whipple shipped here somehow, that would be the day!

 

[gearhead2685]

Hmmm i know one things forsure Vendors have been busted many many times not disclosing FULL list of whats involved. Some use bigger turbos than kits are listed with, some use better gas than claimed, some run nitrous and claim it never happened.....

LOL point is it seems entirely counter productive to make a hail marry dyno or track run and claim nothing to see here folks thats "normal"

Then the consumers try over and over to duplicate it and it almost never happens

So how to we get to the bottom of it?

Wait until the average job blow gets their hands on a kit and see what they produce vs some vendors results.

[MENTION=7578]Vernichtung[/MENTION]

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