We need a basic method to compare Dyno's

[JerseyDevil]

We spent quite a bit of time this weekend dynoing the shop car at Radical Racing in Atco NJ... This car is very finicky in regards to starting coolant and intake air temps and the only way way to show "actual gains" from an upgrade part is to have the runs start at the same coolant and AIT temps. We saw a 30hp difference starting our runs at 75 degree charge air temps vs 100 degree starting charge air temps. As a forum I feel that this information should be shown on vendor datalogs when doing parts comparisons between stock and modified as its really the only way to show what's truly happening.

On a side not my Cobb tuned car put down 297hp/397tq.

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[mbreinin]

Dynos are a tuning tool. MPH at the track is an indicator of HP. However, you are correct. These cars like to be run relatively cold. I find myself giving the car 1-2 hours of cool down between passes. It is absurd.

Mike

 

[EcoSnake]

We spent quite a bit of time this weekend dynoing the shop car at Radical Racing in Atco NJ... This car is very finicky in regards to starting coolant and intake air temps and the only way way to show "actual gains" from an upgrade part is to have the runs start at the same coolant and AIT temps. We saw a 30hp difference starting our runs at 75 degree charge air temps vs 100 degree starting charge air temps. As a forum I feel that this information should be shown on vendor datalogs when doing parts comparisons between stock and modified as its really the only way to show what's truly happening.

On a side not my Cobb tuned car put down 297hp/397tq.

What's the charge air temp for those #'s? ;)

 

[JerseyDevil]

What's the charge air temp for those #'s? ;)

I believe 75-158 and 100-183 degrees which is insane. Our intercoolers keep charge temps generally within 5-20 degrees of ambient. Ambient temps at the dyno were approx 56 degrees!

 

[mbreinin]

I have seen as much as 185 out the back half of the track on the stock intercooler....with the PCM pulling the car down to -7 degrees of timing. Of course, timing that retarded just pumps more heat into the system. The heat soak issues with these cars are absurd, and they extend beyond the IATs.

 

[JerseyDevil]

Dynos are a tuning tool. MPH at the track is an indicator of HP. However, you are correct. These cars like to be run relatively cold. I find myself giving the car 1-2 hours of cool down between passes. It is absurd.

Mike

I agree it's all about MPH and if a part really works mph will increase, but I think it's only fair for vendors(which we are) are all held to an across the board standard to show the actual "reality" of a part. Doing otherwise is not fair to other vendors or the consumers we are attempting to sell to. By showing a few parameters in a datalog such as rpm/coolant temp/charge air temp and boost and replicating this data pre/post end users can make an educated purchase. While we are vendors we won't be making every part, we will be purchasing some items too and I'd like to see "reality" if I'm going to spend my hard earned $ on a part.

 

[mizer67]

Agree wholeheartedly with the proposal.

Let the data tell the story and the parts stand on their own merit.

 

[Impulsed7]

Truth is, there is no way to make a dyno standard, with all the different styles, brands out there, and different software inputs.

Also, there are companies that cheat between runs. Changing the diff ratio multiplier, corrections, etc. So best advice is to learn yourself what works and what doesn't, or watch how others have tested the product in real life.

 

[JerseyDevil]

Agree wholeheartedly with the proposal.

Let the data tell the story and the parts stand on their own merit.

Exactly, ITS always in a vendors best interest to be truthful because there's no faster way to lose respect of the community than being "found out" manipulating product results, and this car is incredibly easy to manipulate on a dyno!

 

[greg hazlett]

Truth is, there is no way to make a dyno standard, with all the different styles, brands out there, and different software inputs.

Also, there are companies that cheat between runs. Changing the diff ratio multiplier, corrections, etc. So best advice is to learn yourself what works and what doesn't, or watch how others have tested the product in real life.

Sad but true about the companies that exaggerate gains to push products.

 

[mbreinin]

I agree it's all about MPH and if a part really works mph will increase, but I think it's only fair for vendors(which we are) are all held to an across the board standard to show the actual "reality" of a part. Doing otherwise is not fair to other vendors or the consumers we are attempting to sell to. By showing a few parameters in a datalog such as rpm/coolant temp/charge air temp and boost and replicating this data pre/post end users can make an educated purchase. While we are vendors we won't be making every part, we will be purchasing some items too and I'd like to see "reality" if I'm going to spend my hard earned $ on a part.

You realize selling parts is a business, right? Do you honestly think that vendors are going to agree to some kind of handicapped system to introduce parity into the testing process? What kind of dyno were you on, for example? Your Cobb numbers are way out of line with the numbers other people have generated. No, I am sure everyone wants to get the best results possible, and quite a few will withhold important information as to what permitted those results....

Mike

 

[JerseyDevil]

Truth is, there is no way to make a dyno standard, with all the different styles, brands out there, and different software inputs.

Also, there are companies that cheat between runs. Changing the diff ratio multiplier, corrections, etc. So best advice is to learn yourself what works and what doesn't, or watch how others have tested the product in real life.

It doesn't matter what dyno is being used as all we are interested in is the delta between runs not the actual power output shown... And yeah if your product is that bad that you need to change dyno parameters to "make a sale" you won't last long as a vendor on an educated forum. We always want our customers to do their own testing and post the results in comparison to our data!

 

[EcoSnake]

I believe 75-158 and 100-183 degrees which is insane. Our intercoolers keep charge temps generally within 5-20 degrees of ambient. Ambient temps at the dyno were approx 56 degrees!

I definitely won't be doing anything in the summer here without cooling upgrades. I wonder what charge air temps will be like with 120° intake temps. :(

 

[JerseyDevil]

You realize selling parts is a business, right? Do you honestly think that vendors are going to agree to some kind of handicapped system to introduce parity into the testing process? What kind of dyno were you on, for example? Your Cobb numbers are way out of line with the numbers other people have generated. No, I am sure everyone wants to get the best results possible, and quite a few will withhold important information as to what permitted those results....

Mike

If a vendor doesn't agree to an industry testing standard are they someone you want to buy parts from? I don't see being honest in testing procedures as a handicap, if the parts you designed work as intended and the end users results match the manufacturers claims.

My Cobb #'s are high because I have been playing around with e85 mixtures to see how much the car can take, I had 30% e85 and 70% 93 octane in my car at the dyno. Even so with the extra octane the timing died under high AIT just like yours did at the track. Radical has a Dynojet btw!

 

[mizer67]

No, I am sure everyone wants to get the best results possible, and quite a few will withhold important information as to what permitted those results....

Mike

In other industries, mis-representing/advertising your products would be considered fraud.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect mfgs./tuners/suppliers to use consistent testing methodology.

Do I expect it to happen, no.

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