VW... seriously, are you surprised?

[SVTFreak]

VW owners would retaliate by saying FORD = Found On The Road Dead. It's hard to find a perfect everyday car. They all have issues here and there.

Pretty certain this is the first instance of a manufacturer willfully and purposefully designing a vehicle specifically to cheat on emissions testing (or any testing for that matter). Same with Chevy ignition switches. No time before in history has any other manufacturer had proof they knew about a problem and tried to hide it. Not saying it hasn't happened, but there wasn't proof.

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[Starman]

Pretty certain this is the first instance of a manufacturer willfully and purposefully designing a vehicle specifically to cheat on emissions testing (or any testing for that matter). Same with Chevy ignition switches. No time before in history has any other manufacturer had proof they knew about a problem and tried to hide it. Not saying it hasn't happened, but there wasn't proof.

I Don't know. After this VW situation it makes me look at things historically.

We were always told that DOHC VTEC (Variable valve timing and electronic lift control that most cars have now) was created because in Japan, they are taxed by engine displacement.

at 0-5500 RPM the car drives like a normal 4 banger... after 5500 the engine changes its entire profile into balls out mode.

For example, on the track where I would always drive in VTEC, my S2000 would get 8MPG in a 2.0 liter 4 banger.

Think about that, I don't think the EPA requires the test to be run at 5500 RPM's right? Just cruise speed?

Every car with VTEC when in VTEC probably spews way higher junk then the EPA calls for.

 

[SVTFreak]

I Don't know. After this VW situation it makes me look at things historically.



We were always told that DOHC VTEC (Variable valve timing and electronic lift control that most cars have now) was created because in Japan, they are taxed by engine displacement.



at 0-5500 RPM the car drives like a normal 4 banger... after 5500 the engine changes its entire profile into balls out mode.



For example, on the track where I would always drive in VTEC, my S2000 would get 8MPG in a 2.0 liter 4 banger.



Think about that, I don't think the EPA requires the test to be run at 5500 RPM's right? Just cruise speed?



Every car with VTEC when in VTEC probably spews way higher junk then the EPA calls for.

Emissions certification (different from tests) would require certain times spent at certain engine loads. So yes, there would be times that it would be operated in that range. That's very different and perfectly legal as long as certification was awaited with that in place.

Secondly, that's not exactly what vtec does. First, valve lift and duration cannot be changed. Very much anyway. Duration at 50 can arguably be changed with hydraulic pressure, but for this discussion and that particular motor, it's minute. Advertised duration cannot be changed. The vtec (and fords ti-vct) only change can timing and overlap. Advancing or retarding the intake and exhaust cams to make the valves open earlier or later in respect to crank position (and to each other) is what makes the power. So you get the low speed driveability of a low overlap cam and the high engine speed power and cylinder scavenging of a high overlap cam. If the cam timing is changed drastically (and you feel it "kick in") the manufacturer or tuner did it strictly to make it feel better, while sacrificing power at lower rpms, or more importantly, less area under the curve. If they would bring the overlap up earlier and slower, that "peak" or "jump" in power you feel would be smoother due to he power leading up to that coming on sooner. A good tuner can avoid that, make more power at lower levels

Something just occurred to me. Honda may have done that in order to require the throttle be at a higher angle therefore reducing the amount of time (theoretically) that they had to be at that condition to help emissions. Either way, they didn't hide it and didn't sense when testing and go to a ghost program. It's the knowingly hiding it.

 

[347CobraII]

That's the thing, I've seen plenty of places reporting 'blah blah begin recall by January' or something but I don't see how this isn't just as big of a cluster as Takata. You can't tune this out of the car, it needs the Urea injection system to be installed on an exhaust system not designed for it. Where are they going to fit the 5-8 gallon tanks to store the fluid either? Crazy.

Actually you could put SCR on it's after DPF. Just needs NOx sensors one before DPF in monitor engine output of NOx. Then other one at outlet of SCR to monitor output. If NOx cannot be controlled by SCR with injection of UREA then engine adds in more EGR. I know because I work on them in Semi's truck we have used this longer than cars/pickups

 

[347CobraII]

So many think EPA or CARB don't like BIG power or BIG engines. THEY don't care as long as they pass emission standards at that time. Caterpillar along with International/Mann tried everything to pass current standards without using UREA. Guess what it put them 3 yrs behind Cummins and Detroit plus not able to use 15 liter engine now like Cummins and Detroit are. Anyone see 20/20 when international accused Cummins cheating by showing video putting water in DEF tank (UREA) then drive off (by the illegal to do). Of course you be able to drive but after hour you go into derate then severe derate only go 5 mph. Then when there project failed with Cat and Mann went back to Cummins crawling. Cummins made them have all there tech's take training classes going back to 2007 product even thou we was using 2013 emissions. So they understand DPF system before SCR was introduced.


BIGGEST issue with EPA they moved us 3yrs ahead so emission years in changes was 07, 10, 13 should have been 10, 13, 16. So it sent everyone into OMG mode sent them advance test engines into production 07 emission year was cluster fuck year.

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