Track Prep & Recommendations Thread

[Stuntman]

I have to go back and see my telemetry data, but ACS does not need more braking than CWVR and BW. Also, Laguna seca is generally lot more cooler than CWVR and most of the hard braking is done uphill (except obviously turn 3).

Not very good lap times. Not to make any excuses, but it was very hot at Chuckwalla and my brakes were already fading at Button Willow.

Best time at CWVR CW is 2:03.85. BW 13CW is 2:04.71. I also ran 2 minutes flat on a GT4 at BW the same day.

Not sure I agree with you.

Coming off of the ACS banking is a massive braking zone. Heck, 2 of the 3 infield brake zones are as hard/harder than BW's Turn 1 & Sunset brake zones (which are the only significant brake zones).

At Laguna, only the corkscrew and a short brake zone for T6 are uphill. Turn 2, 3, 5, and 11 are all flat or downhill and are pretty hard brake zones (except T3).

I am surprised you had brake fade doing 2:04s. Stock S2000s on street tires can turn those times and the 350 should be pretty similar to the GT4 time wise, not 4-5 seconds off.

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[jooyoung99]

Not sure I agree with you.

Coming off of the ACS banking is a massive braking zone. Heck, 2 of the 3 infield brake zones are as hard/harder than BW's Turn 1 & Sunset brake zones (which are the only significant brake zones).

At Laguna, only the corkscrew and a short brake zone for T6 are uphill. Turn 2, 3, 5, and 11 are all flat or downhill and are pretty hard brake zones (except T3).

I am surprised you had brake fade doing 2:04s. Stock S2000s on street tires can turn those times and the 350 should be pretty similar to the GT4 time wise, not 4-5 seconds off.

I'm not a very good driver. And it was only a 2nd track day on my GT350. I'm sure someone good can easily lap 5 to 6 seconds faster. I've had the GT4 for almost 10 months, so I'm much more comfortable with that car. A pro driver did 1:56 in my GT4. Also, GT4 is on a cup 2 tires and GT350 is on a SS tires, so it's not a fair comparison. I think same tires and good driver, lap times should be similar.

Anyway, I will find my telemetry data and show you the braking and throttle maps for all 4 tracks. I think I can take snap shot of the graphs. You can't just based on your feel. Tracks like BW and CWVR have very short time between braking. Those short braking periods add up.

Also, when is your next track day? I would love to follow a better driver. You can show me how it's done. Maybe we can meet up. I'm trying to go every weekend until June.

 

[Stuntman]

I live in in FL but am planning on trying to make it back to BW this fall with a bunch of friends. My buddy did a 57 in his C7 Z51 so the GT350 Track Pack should be around that.

Who did the 56 in your GT4 and did your pedal go long or the car just didn't stop no matter how hard you pushed the pedal?

 

[jooyoung99]

I think his is either Brent or Bret. Someone told me he is a Pirelli WC driver.

Pedal went long. I think it's because I boil the fluids a week before at CWVR. I'm not saying stock pads are bad. Just the wear on the pads are pretty high. Two track days, and I already need to replace it. Definitely not going to risk a 3rd track day.

 

[Trackaholic]

I have two track days on the GT350, one at Sonoma and one at Seca. Seca is definitely hard on brakes, but I wasn't really pushing the car's top speed due to sound.

Even so, I did feel that the brakes felt "soft", but never had the pedal go to the floor or fade. I did feel that I was applying significant pressure and getting significant pedal motion, but would still get only 0.7G of deceleration. It might be that some of our cars need the brakes flushed, or new fluid added, or perhaps I heated them up too quickly and didn't get a good burnish.

My pad life has been pretty good though, with lots of pad remaining after the two track days and 5700 street miles. I definitely would like an improvement in pedal feel, but am not gong to rush to judgement on the solution until I've changed the fluid at the very least. At some point moving to alternate pads might be in the cards, but given the pad swap process on these brakes, I don't think I'd want to swap street and track pads for each trackday.

Looking forward to getting more data from others.

Finally, given how hot brakes run, I would not expect to see a large difference in wear between a 100 degree day and a 70 degree day, but I could be wrong on that. Just a gut feel that it shouldn't make a huge difference in wear.

-T

 

[jooyoung99]

Once pads reach above threshold temperature, pads start to evaporate. Which leads to early pad wear. If u have firm paddle and car doesn't slow down anymore, that's when the resins starts to evaporate.

Are you on the track mustang forum? Quite of few people showing high pad wears too. Maybe you're just a better driver that uses the brakes more efficiently. What lap times are you running at LS? Stock tires? Using factory recommended track alignment? Don't you have sound restrictions?

 

[Trackaholic]

Once pads reach above threshold temperature, pads start to evaporate. Which leads to early pad wear. If u have firm paddle and car doesn't slow down anymore, that's when the resins starts to evaporate.

Are you on the track mustang forum? Quite of few people showing high pad wears too. Maybe you're just a better driver that uses the brakes more efficiently. What lap times are you running at LS? Stock tires? Using factory recommended track alignment? Don't you have sound restrictions?

I'm a smooth driver, but I don't brake that hard, and I'm not that fast (also still using the PSS stock tires). My time at Laguna was 1:50.XX, but I wasn't going full throttle due to sound restriction. Had to keep the car in normal mode and modulate throttle to keep the exhaust valves from opening. I think there is an easy 3-5 seconds compared to what I was running. I ran a 1:58.XX @ Sonoma, and was pushing pretty good in some sections, but also know that I was leaving quite a bit on the table in others (just didn't have the courage to push in those places).

I used Performance Friction PFC97 and PFC01 pads on my 350Z with R888's, and loved those pads. Would swap them out for street use (had a Stoptech BBK in that car). They were ~$300 for the fronts, so seeing the $600 price above makes me think that I should continue to just go a little easy on the brakes. Not sure if I'm ready for that kind of consumable price. We'll see how the brakes hold up as I accumulate more track time.

-T

 

[Porsche332]

Bottom line this is a 3800 pound car.It will never have the braking ability of a 2900-3100 pound Porsche.No matter how much you spend of pads will help.

 

[Bossing]

Bottom line this is a 3800 pound car.It will never have the braking ability of a 2900-3100 pound Porsche.No matter how much you spend of pads will help.

Exactly. That's the key Achilles heel in the GT350 specifically on the track. One of my take aways from tracking it so far, while still very fun, is that I am focusing much more on weight balance & distribution in key sectors since the car's weight/heft sensitively affects its braking and turning at speed. Improper or ill-timed weight distribution adversely affects it at a greater result. I wish the GT350 was 300-400lbs lighter but that's moot at this point. In any case, I still really enjoy driving it knowing I have to go thru brake pads more often. I already have a new front OEM pad set to replace my fromt pads soon.

 

[Stuntman]

If your pedal is long, you're boiling the fluid. Throw some Castrol SRF in there. I think a decent driver won't get more than a few track days out of a set of pads, but with good fluid I don't think pad fade is much of a concern. Boiling fluid =/= fade.

 

[svttim]

If your pedal is long, you're boiling the fluid. Throw some Castrol SRF in there. I think a decent driver won't get more than a few track days out of a set of pads, but with good fluid I don't think pad fade is much of a concern. Boiling fluid =/= fade.

He said he was using 660. Never had any issues with the Castrol in any car I have run. Is there something else here?

 

[Stuntman]

He said he was using 660. Never had any issues with the Castrol in any car I have run. Is there something else here?

Post #77 said he already HAD fade and was going to switch to 660.

I like Castrol SRF better than Motul RBF660 because of the significantly higher wet boiling point.

 

[superman07]

how much fluid is required for a full replacement of SRF?

 

[svttim]

Post #77 said he already HAD fade and was going to switch to 660.

I like Castrol SRF better than Motul RBF660 because of the significantly higher wet boiling point.

Thanks, mis-read that. :headbonk:

I have never run either on a street car. Just a high quality fluid. I used to use ATE on the street cars. Made flushing easier with the different colors. Unfortunately, DOT got involved

 

[Stuntman]

1qt should just be enough for a complete flush and fill the reservior, but I'd put 1.5qt through it to be sure and have a little left over for future bleeds.

Thanks, mis-read that. :headbonk:

I have never run either on a street car. Just a high quality fluid. I used to use ATE on the street cars. Made flushing easier with the different colors. Unfortunately, DOT got involved

I've run SuperBlue forever but SRF is what everyone uses in Motorsports and its performance when old is often better than SuperBlue when new, so IMO it's worth the premium.

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