Summer Tire Degradation

[MAGS1]

Perhaps the OPs tires have aged out by time or track cycles, then.
I wonder if they'd be good at one more track night.

That’s what it seems like to me. A good test would be to do a burnout to get them good and hot and see how they do on street. They might only be fit for a track day or two at this point, where they can get plenty hot. They otherwise don’t look too bad to me.

It seems to be a not uncommon occurrence for the PS4S to not make it all the way to the mileage warranty, I’ve heard a few folks have had to change them out after 3-4 years because their street grip is basically gone. I guess time will tell on my ECS also, but I’ve heard less of that happening with those.

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[ChitownStang]

It's possible. Tire compounds tend to be affected by heat cycles, and also have a limit on their shelf life before they lose grip.



The Michelins and Continentals probably age at different rates. If you look at the treadwear ratings on the tires, do the Continentals have a higher number? If so, they're supposed to outlast the Michelins, while the Michelins were supposed to have more grip when new.
("Supposed to" comes with caveats, but gives you the general idea)


Most tires harden and lose grip with heat cycles. I can't think why these Michelins would be an exception.

I bet when you were at the track, in summer, you had no trouble keeping the tires warm. They were probably in their intended temperature range. As far North as you are, instead of being 5-month-a-year tires, maybe they should be track day tires.

Yeah, I've always used summer tires in in chicago, had nittos and the EC DW's on my 15gt. the DW's were a great tire but didn't have them long enough to notice degradation and I never took them to track.
I only have 2 sets of wheels so a dedicated track tire would be another set of wheels which I didn't want to do. But maybe if I want to track that's part of the game.
Guess I could just use the DWS's year round but I like having a higher performance tire for summer and then my all-seasons will last longer.
The PS4S were great for the first couple seasons so maybe they are just toast which is disappointing.

 

[ChitownStang]

That’s what it seems like to me. A good test would be to do a burnout to get them good and hot and see how they do on street. They might only be fit for a track day or two at this point, where they can get plenty hot. They otherwise don’t look too bad to me.

It seems to be a not uncommon occurrence for the PS4S to not make it all the way to the mileage warranty, I’ve heard a few folks have had to change them out after 3-4 years because their street grip is basically gone. I guess time will tell on my ECS also, but I’ve heard less of that happening with those.

Thanks for the burnout test advice Mags, may have to try that!

 

[MAGS1]

Thanks for the burnout test advice Mags, may have to try that!

That will at least get them hot so you can see if the compounds are still working at the hotter operating temps. If they are, you can probably get one more track night out of them. And if they’re toast, you should be able to get a proration of the mileage warranty towards a new set. Discount Tire is my go-to for tires and they’ve helped me with that in the past (ironically, Michelins on my wife’s SUV that only lasted 2 years).

 

[GTP]

...

Otherwise, they’re probably just wearing out unfortunately. Good thing is, if you fully rotate them (i.e. square setup), Michelin has a 30k mileage warranty on them, so you’ll get a prorated amount of $$ towards a new set of tires. If you’re staggered, 15k is the stated warranty mileage.

How would such a claim work? He is under mileage limit, and still has tread depth remaining. So what is his claim - "not enough traction"?

 

[MAGS1]

How would such a claim work? He is under mileage limit, and still has tread depth remaining. So what is his claim - "not enough traction"?

Yes, I’d make the argument that tire compounds have diminished and the tires no longer function as designed even though there is still enough tread left. They have a bit of a slippery, sheen look to them. I’m not a rubber compound engineer by any stretch but to me that says the tires are firming up and the compounds are not functioning as designed. A good tire shop should be able to tell him if he’s got a good warranty case, but IMO he does have a case. At 6/32” he shouldn’t be losing grip as much as he is.

Im actually surprised he’s at 6/32” after 3 summers considering they start at 9/32”. I would’ve guessed closer to 4/32” if the grip was starting to go as much as described in the OP.

 

[GTP]

My PS4S are on only for track days including driving to and from the track. They are 5 years old. About 6 or 7 32nds left. They refuse to wear out! But I will keep running them until they wear down. Chalk up their sliding around to more car control experience I guess!

I think OP would have to research the requirements for a claim further.

 

[ChitownStang]

I stopped at 2 auto shops today that deal Michelin and they were cloudy at best on how the warranty claim goes since they don't see many. One guy said it takes a few months for any decision as well. May try my local Ford dealer at lunch to inquire.
At this point it may not be worth the wait and hassle.
I'd rather have Conti than Michelin anyways.
Would you guys do the same stock PP setup which fills the wheels wells nicely or lose a little diameter and do 275/35R19 / 295/35R19 for a little more grip but half inch less diameter which means more fender gap?

 

[MAGS1]

I stopped at 2 auto shops today that deal Michelin and they were cloudy at best on how the warranty claim goes since they don't see many. One guy said it takes a few months for any decision as well. May try my local Ford dealer at lunch to inquire.
At this point it may not be worth the wait and hassle.
I'd rather have Conti than Michelin anyways.
Would you guys do the same stock PP setup which fills the wheels wells nicely or lose a little diameter and do 275/35R19 / 295/35R19 for a little more grip but half inch less diameter which means more fender gap?

What width wheels you running? If you have a square setup and are running at least 10” wide, I’d go 295/35 all around personally. I’d rather have the grip (although it’s not a huge difference between a 275). Will fill out the wells a little more from a width perspective too. That bothers me more than the height honestly

 

[GTP]

I stopped at 2 auto shops today that deal Michelin and they were cloudy at best on how the warranty claim goes since they don't see many. One guy said it takes a few months for any decision as well. May try my local Ford dealer at lunch to inquire.
At this point it may not be worth the wait and hassle.
I'd rather have Conti than Michelin anyways.
Would you guys do the same stock PP setup which fills the wheels wells nicely or lose a little diameter and do 275/35R19 / 295/35R19 for a little more grip but half inch less diameter which means more fender gap?

Even so, I just suspect you will find your claim rejected everywhere.

I run 275/40 square on 9.5" O-Z rims. Wheel gap looks identical front and rear. I don't lower my car either, so the gap is uniform all around the fender. Furthermore, your speedo/odo is calibrated for 275/40 in the back, so going smaller diameter will indicate higher miles than actual.

 

[MAGS1]

Here’s your differences between 275/40 and 295/35 as to what @GTP was saying

FWIW, I have basically the identical difference in height, just going up instead of down, when I put my summer set on (285/35/20 from 235/50/18).

 

[ChitownStang]

For Winters I run 275/40R19 square Conti DWS on 9.5" wide RTR Tech 7 wheels and it looks great.

The stock non-HP Mach 1 wheels which I'm using for summer are 9.5" wide front and 10" rear so I am stuck with staggered.
Mach 1 came with same tires as PP GT 255/40R19 / 275/40R19 (diameter - 27" front, 27.7" rear)

275/35r19 is 26.6" diameter and 295/35R19 is 27.1" diameter

Someone else on here had a pic with 285/35R19 squared and the gap was noticeably larger so it's got me a little worried. maybe like Mags said the width will make up for it.

 

[MAGS1]

285/35 will get you back basically to the stock front size, so you could do 285 front and 295 rear. I’m guessing that photos probably accentuate the gap more than you actually see in person. I’ve seen a few cars with 285/35/19 in stock suspension and the gap wasn’t anything that jumped out at me FWIW. But we all see things differently from a visual perspective

 

[ChitownStang]

285/35 will get you back basically to the stock front size, so you could do 285 front and 295 rear. I’m guessing that photos probably accentuate the gap more than you actually see in person. I’ve seen a few cars with 285/35/19 in stock suspension and the gap wasn’t anything that jumped out at me FWIW. But we all see things differently from a visual perspective

ok, so 285/35 on front has no clearance issues?
I just may be introducing Tramlining into the equation on the street.

 

[MAGS1]

ok, so 285/35 on front has no clearance issues?
I just may be introducing Tramlining into the equation on the street.

Nope you’re good as far as clearance goes. Maybe a little more tramline but I don’t really notice anything with mine. I run the Continental Extreme Contact Sport in summer. The 02’s are the newer version, they came out shortly after I bought mine LOL

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