SCCA F-Street Setup. What's Everyone Done so Far?

[DickR]

Are they only 'firm' or are some of them 'harsh'? Or somewhere in between?

Would you even think of manually upshifting on corner exit on a wet track?


Norm

I would not say "harsh" based on limited testing so far. Firmness seems to depend on throttle position and drive mode. FAST and FIRM as appropriate for throttle position.

I don't think managing traction during and after an up shift at the combined lateral and longitudinal grip limits should be any more difficult than with a manual trans and maybe less likely to upset the car compared to a manual. Given the very close gear ratios simply using a higher gear would also be an option.

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[jpaulson]

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but has a anybody determined if PP spring rates have been changed from 15-17 to 18?

 

[DickR]

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but has a anybody determined if PP spring rates have been changed from 15-17 to 18?

I have not seen any numbers in either Ford documentation or elsewhere. However, Carl Widmann (Chief Engineer for Mustang) has said in interviews that the "steel" setup is the same for the PP's with or without MagneRide. Also the anti-roll bar diameters on my MagneRide car are the same as the 15 GTPP's. The spring code letters on the door jam label are different. I don't know if the front and left rear MagneRide springs are different parts from the normal GTPP but the right rear is reverse wound just like the GT350's. The new version of fordparts.com isn't working well enough to help (I've tried).

 

[Norm Peterson]

I would not say "harsh" based on limited testing so far. Firmness seems to depend on throttle position and drive mode. FAST and FIRM as appropriate for throttle position.

Thanks.

If you were to lift off the throttle on a manually commanded upshift like you would in a MT car, would that make much difference? This would be a non-issue for most people (who only buy automatics anyway), but a definite consideration if your driving includes little or no seat time with an AT.


Norm

 

[DickR]

Thanks.

If you were to lift off the throttle on a manually commanded upshift like you would in a MT car, would that make much difference? This would be a non-issue for most people (who only buy automatics anyway), but a definite consideration if your driving includes little or no seat time with an AT.


Norm

I don't know since no relevant experience so far. Ask me again in a few months when I've had autocross experience with the 10A. Of course that will be using the first three gears so the car is going to want to go sideways in many situations with either a manual or an automatic.

 

[jpaulson]

I have not seen any numbers in either Ford documentation or elsewhere. However, Carl Widmann (Chief Engineer for Mustang) has said in interviews that the "steel" setup is the same for the PP's with or without MagneRide. Also the anti-roll bar diameters on my MagneRide car are the same as the 15 GTPP's. The spring code letters on the door jam label are different. I don't know if the front and left rear MagneRide springs are different parts from the normal GTPP but the right rear is reverse wound just like the GT350's. The new version of fordparts.com isn't working well enough to help (I've tried).

Thanks Dick.

 

[destoups]

I did some autocross relevant testing of the 10A today.

1) As Des said with the shifter in S "automatic" the trans holds a gear for "awhile" after you lift from full or "heavy" throttle. I don't know if it will hold a gear long enough such that changing to manual mode won't be needed.

2) In S the trans can start in second just by using the upshift paddle. I tried 2nd gear starts in Track mode with whatever level of nannies are used in Track still on. In 45 degree weather wheel spin resulted.

3) Manual up and down shifts are FAST. The only shifting that seemed to be "slow" was when flooring the throttle at a low speed while in automatic mode when cruising in a high gear ratio. Realistically it probably is no slower than suddenly downshifting a manual from a high ratio to a low ratio or even down shifting one ratio in a manual.

[MENTION=12865]DickR[/MENTION] a buddy of mine, after I mentioned the lag time of on-course downshifts, suggested the programming wouldn't allow a downshift at or near redline and that the wait was for the engine to slow to some predetermined but lower than redline RPM limit. The manual seems to say that, too, if you don't read "maximum allowable limit" as redline, as I did.

"As long as the engine speed does not exceed the maximum allowable limit, downshifts are allowed."

May not be an issue in the GT. I'll try a little more street experimentation to see exactly when it'll accept a downshift. (Given how great third felt at the debut event, I don't see this happening except on our local runway courses with super low-speed pivot cones)

 

[DickR]

Des - Now that the car is broken-in enough for me to be comfortable with full throttle and max revs here is some info on shifting to supplement what you've already reported. All shifting observations are between 2 and 3 using paddles with the shifter in S and drive mode in track with full track mode nannies.

1) Downshifts at high revs: Paddle shifted multiple times from 3rd to 2nd while coasting (foot off throttle) at about 45 - 50 mph. Resulting rpm in the GT with its 7400 rpm redline was between 6K and 6.5K. Equivalent with your 6500 rpm redline might be 40 - 45 mph. I didn't notice any significant lag other than the very brief rev matching but I wasn't watching carefully. I don't know yet if downshifts for tight corners/pivots can be initiated soon enough that the steering wheel is still straight enough for paddle access.

2) Upshifts at full throttle and high revs: Manual mode does hold the gear to the rev limit. Despite what the owner manual "implied" for a few weeks there is no "automatic full throttle up shift at redline" unless the computer has a time limit on being on the rev limiter. It was clear that shifting as or after the rev limiter kicks in results in a slow shift compared to shifting slightly early.

3) Des - did you or Mark experience any significant loss of traction if you shifted at full throttle while cornering? Temps were too cold (about 40) and the roads too narrow for me to experiment even with the oem PS4S tires "garage warm" (driving didn't warm them and it was windy so the pavement was at ambient).

4) MagneRide "bobbing": Within the traction limits of 2nd gear I tried some "front end lift and dive". I really couldn't tell. Repeated in 3rd gear and still couldn't tell since this is so subjective. This would probably require side by side comparison with a SA Koni car by a very perceptive driver (lets me out ;) )

 

[destoups]

Des - Now that the car is broken-in enough for me to be comfortable with full throttle and max revs here is some info on shifting to supplement what you've already reported. All shifting observations are between 2 and 3 using paddles with the shifter in S and drive mode in track with full track mode nannies.

1) Downshifts at high revs: Paddle shifted multiple times from 3rd to 2nd while coasting (foot off throttle) at about 45 - 50 mph. Resulting rpm in the GT with its 7400 rpm redline was between 6K and 6.5K. Equivalent with your 6500 rpm redline might be 40 - 45 mph. I didn't notice any significant lag other than the very brief rev matching but I wasn't watching carefully. I don't know yet if downshifts for tight corners/pivots can be initiated soon enough that the steering wheel is still straight enough for paddle access.

2) Upshifts at full throttle and high revs: Manual mode does hold the gear to the rev limit. Despite what the owner manual "implied" for a few weeks there is no "automatic full throttle up shift at redline" unless the computer has a time limit on being on the rev limiter. It was clear that shifting as or after the rev limiter kicks in results in a slow shift compared to shifting slightly early.

3) Des - did you or Mark experience any significant loss of traction if you shifted at full throttle while cornering? Temps were too cold (about 40) and the roads too narrow for me to experiment even with the oem PS4S tires "garage warm" (driving didn't warm them and it was windy so the pavement was at ambient).

4) MagneRide "bobbing": Within the traction limits of 2nd gear I tried some "front end lift and dive". I really couldn't tell. Repeated in 3rd gear and still couldn't tell since this is so subjective. This would probably require side by side comparison with a SA Koni car by a very perceptive driver (lets me out ;) )

[MENTION=12865]DickR[/MENTION] 1) One thing Mark did that I didn't is to position his hands with fingertips on the paddle for the upshift midcorner. (He drives with his hands locked, I flail.) Frankly, I just need to drive every day in sport-manual for my hands to memorize the process, rather than search for them every time. I don't anticipate many downshifts, but I imagine most of those will be in corner setup mode rather than midcorner with the wheel turned sharply. The paddles are small; I asked Mark about the extensions I've seen but he says there is some debate about their legality.

2) Yes, noticed this as well.

3) No real looseness on upshifts, but as I said, we shifted to second almost instantly on launch, then to third as the corner unwound. You can feel the back end want to come out, but it's predictable and easy to modulate. GT? Could be a different story!

4) Bet you'll notice instantly if it's an issue the first autox corner you take!

 

[DocWalt]

FWIW on my car in normal mode shocks there is significant lift/dive, it's pretty unsettling. Sport or above and it's stable.

 

[SteveW]

Des, your car looked awesome on the practice course but did have a bit more movement than Jeff's Camaro Saturday as Mark flew by my work station. I didn't get to see you guys Sunday morning because I was changing front springs on my car in the pits.

Where were you at with rebound in your SA Konis?

 

[DickR]

[MENTION=12865]DickR[/MENTION] 1) One thing Mark did that I didn't is to position his hands with fingertips on the paddle for the upshift midcorner. (He drives with his hands locked, I flail.) Frankly, I just need to drive every day in sport-manual for my hands to memorize the process, rather than search for them every time. I don't anticipate many downshifts, but I imagine most of those will be in corner setup mode rather than midcorner with the wheel turned sharply. The paddles are small; I asked Mark about the extensions I've seen but he says there is some debate about their legality.

2) Yes, noticed this as well.

3) No real looseness on upshifts, but as I said, we shifted to second almost instantly on launch, then to third as the corner unwound. You can feel the back end want to come out, but it's predictable and easy to modulate. GT? Could be a different story!

4) Bet you'll notice instantly if it's an issue the first autox corner you take!

Thanks for the info!

I fully understand on the "flailing hands" issue.

Does the EB permit starting in second rather than shifting almost instantly on launch?

I'll try more "lift/dive" in the different modes ASAP.

 

[destoups]

Thanks for the info!

I fully understand on the "flailing hands" issue.

Does the EB permit starting in second rather than shifting almost instantly on launch?

I'll try more "lift/dive" in the different modes ASAP.

Yep, it does permit second gear starts. And that would have been easier for the dogleg start for sure. Too eager to play to think properly.

 

[destoups]

Des, your car looked awesome on the practice course but did have a bit more movement than Jeff's Camaro Saturday as Mark flew by my work station. I didn't get to see you guys Sunday morning because I was changing front springs on my car in the pits.

Where were you at with rebound in your SA Konis?

About 80% stiff in front, about 20% stiff in back.

You think dialing up the rear would reduce the squat? It hooked up soooo good but I suppose I could add a front bar if things get too sketchy.

 

[DickR]

Wouldn't more rear rebound simply tend to reduce the rise after squat?

Dick - who really doesn't understand anything he thinks he knows about shock tuning.

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