Opinions on the Chevy SS

[BmacIL]

Why not? Kia Sorento and Optima sold in North America are BUILT IN GEORGIA by AMERICANS.

Are you saying your patriotism is dependent on your vehicle choice? That's funny considering your recommended BMW and European brands? Let's use your logic - we lost over 400,000 American soldiers fighting the Germans in WW2. And you'd buy a BMW or other European brand (don't forget the Italians started on Hitler's side)?

The South Koreans (KIA / HYUNDAI) have been are Allies for a long time.



The big three routinely turned out SHIT for cars (at least in terms of Quality Control) in the 70's through some of 90's. The 80's is when the Japanese (Honda / Toyota) really gained a foothold - mainly because of UAW and their practices driving auto workers wages UP, car prices UP and quality steadily declining.



Funny - you might want to check the engineering and design staff at Kia, Hyundai and the other "off brand" manufacturers and check their resumes. I'll wait.





LMAO - by your logic (God it pained me to use that word, even being facetious, when referring to your musings) BMW's would be for people worried about what other people think of what they drive. Same for Mercedes.

Does telling the truth make me "un American"? Hmmm, I guess spending 6 years getting a really shitty paycheck from Uncle Sam and getting to "visit" really lovely locales around the world doesn't count for much huh?

Believe it or not, there are some people who see a car as PURELY a transportation device to get them and their family from point A to point B in a safe an economically friendly manner.

Love your attitude by the way. Did you lose many of your friends at Starbucks on Sunday morning when you showed up in a non-European car?

Kia, Hyundai and every manufacturer have made LIGHT YEAR jumps in QC for production and engineering. ALL car companies are ultimately driven by the bean counters in the end - that's what keeps them in business - making money - God Bless Capitalism. Seriously - who wants to drive a Lada?

Take every part out of a Ford made in Asia, and you'd likely end up with a go cart - if that. Same goes for most every car manufacturer.

As for Kia being shitboxes - I know a guy who is a sales manager for a large company. They give him a car allowance every month. He drive a TON of miles. He got his first Hyundai in '11. He just got his 2nd Kia. The money he saves between what he spends on his work car versus what his company pays him - well that helped pay for the toy he used on the weekends on the lake and the other toy he races most weekends.

Tell you what - you buy what YOU want with your money, and let other people do the same. It's attitudes like yours that turn people AWAY from the car culture.

I've worked for two American automotive OEMs in my career (one of them currently). Despite that, I tell you not to bother with this argument. No one with their feet that firmly dug in will ever change their mind. Funny thing is, cars are usually the only thing or one of the only things people feel this way about. They have no problem buying all sorts of crap made in China, Taiwan, Korea, etc.

The BEST thing Ford did in the late 2000s was to RESPECT their competitors from Japan, Korea, in addition to Germany. Alan Mulally taught them how, and showed anyone the door that wasn't willing to do that. Alan told the story once of his first week at Ford. He showed up driving a Toyota Camry. Everyone was shocked and asked how he could do that. He simply responded that this was the best passenger car in the world, and that you can't beat them without understanding what they're the best at. None of the executives even drove Ford or Lincoln products. All of them Aston, Jag, Volvo. Not long after, they were all driving Fords.

Thinking that they're all shitboxes is what caused the great decline of all of the Big 3 in 80's through the 2000's. They started making GOOD vehicles all around once they learned to respect their competitors.

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[HotBadgerFart]

Before this gets locked...

I'm no market expert or anything, but I've owned a few cars (36 at last count) so, I've dipped my toes in many different brands and models.
Let's not forget that Genesis is Kia, and Kia is Hyundai.

G8's were great cars. I hate that I missed out on the one I was chasing, and settled on a Grand Prix GXP at the time.

The SS is a very cool plain-Jane-go-fast-mobile.

Anyone who says a brand doesn't define quality has never heard of Daewoo.

Foreign cars came to the US Market and kicked ass because they were getting a lot more than the 3-7mpg of heavy (albeit safer) American cars, and cost much less than our domestics.

There has never been a Kia/Hyundai that I saw and though, "That looks GOOD!"

Budget brands don't innovate, they steal the ideas of others, mush them into a conglomerate, and claim innovation.

 

[ctandc72]

Before this gets locked...

I'm no market expert or anything, but I've owned a few cars (36 at last count) so, I've dipped my toes in many different brands and models.
Let's not forget that Genesis is Kia, and Kia is Hyundai.

G8's were great cars. I hate that I missed out on the one I was chasing, and settled on a Grand Prix GXP at the time.

The SS is a very cool plain-Jane-go-fast-mobile.

Anyone who says a brand doesn't define quality has never heard of Daewoo.

Foreign cars came to the US Market and kicked ass because they were getting a lot more than the 3-7mpg of heavy (albeit safer) American cars, and cost much less than our domestics.

There has never been a Kia/Hyundai that I saw and though, "That looks GOOD!"

Budget brands don't innovate, they steal the ideas of others, mush them into a conglomerate, and claim innovation.

Might want to look at what the Sonata did when it hit the showrooms (and tv commericals) in '2010 (the 2011 model dropped in Fed '10). Then look at what its direct competitors did AFTER the new Sonata dropped.

Might want to check the awards that car won too.

Style / looks is a personal preference thing and totally subjective. I would never have bought a Mustang based JUST on looks. And there are cars I LOVE the looks of, I would never buy because of how they drive / reliability / performance etc.

Kia predates Hyundai FYI - in the 1940's if memory serves.

And saying Kia = Hyundai is like saying Ford = Jaguar or any of the other multitude of auto manufacturers who own stake in each other and use joint platforms.

Remember - there are A LOT of cars that never get marketed here. Some for good reasons, some for stupid reasons. Doesn't mean they don't exist.

Saying that Kia / Hyundai don't "innovate" - they copy is actually pretty funny. Look at the "major" players 4 door mid size sedans in 2009. Then Sonata his in 2010. Now look at their 2011 and up models. LMAO

 

[Hack]

Before this gets locked...

I'm no market expert or anything, but I've owned a few cars (36 at last count) so, I've dipped my toes in many different brands and models.
Let's not forget that Genesis is Kia, and Kia is Hyundai.

G8's were great cars. I hate that I missed out on the one I was chasing, and settled on a Grand Prix GXP at the time.

The SS is a very cool plain-Jane-go-fast-mobile.

Anyone who says a brand doesn't define quality has never heard of Daewoo.

Foreign cars came to the US Market and kicked ass because they were getting a lot more than the 3-7mpg of heavy (albeit safer) American cars, and cost much less than our domestics.

There has never been a Kia/Hyundai that I saw and though, "That looks GOOD!"

Budget brands don't innovate, they steal the ideas of others, mush them into a conglomerate, and claim innovation.

I still remember the TIME article in the 80s talking about how Japanese auto companies were dumping their cars at under COST in the US. The government was providing the funding for this to happen. That is how Honda and Toyota got their reputation. I realize it dates me that I remember this, but I don't care. I will never let this go. I would love to buy a WRX but I probably won't - even used - because I remember that Japan waged economic warfare against us and it succeeded. I don't care where a car is built; the lower wage earners are doing that work. The management and ownership is in Japan - it's not for me.

I don't hold any grudge against the Koreans or European auto manufacturers. As far as I know they aren't doing anything like that. The Korean designs definitely are derivative rather than innovative, but that is what I expect from a newer car company that is trying to learn the ropes. I just haven't been excited by anything coming from Korea as of yet. And I can't afford the European stuff I'd like to buy.

 

[UAmach1]

Budget brands don't innovate, they steal the ideas of others, mush them into a conglomerate, and claim innovation.

May want to tell Marchionne that: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...s-copied-design-cues-from-hyundai-103997.html

Imported from Detroit... and carbon copied from Korea. Probably doesn't help that a new Chrysler 200 was often cheaper than a Nissan Altima.

Also, you just described the process that has made Apple BILLIONS over the last 10 years.

 

[lpe403]

Saying that Kia / Hyundai don't "innovate" - they copy is actually pretty funny. Look at the "major" players 4 door mid size sedans in 2009. Then Sonata his in 2010. Now look at their 2011 and up models. LMAO

Totally agree - Kia has broken with the conservative mold of most Asian manufacturers (save for an expensive few hot rods like the GTR and F series Lexi) and put out an affordable hot rod with great features that has touches of Italian styling. It's not an M or an AMG but it certainly is innovative - and very f'in cool.

 

[Hack]

Remember - there are A LOT of cars that never get marketed here. Some for good reasons, some for stupid reasons. Doesn't mean they don't exist.
Saying that Kia / Hyundai don't "innovate" - they copy is actually pretty funny. Look at the "major" players 4 door mid size sedans in 2009. Then Sonata his in 2010. Now look at their 2011 and up models. LMAO

Huh, I did google searches and looked at the cars and I don't see what you're talking about. I believe you, but it isn't apparent to me at all.

I always felt that even the H badge on the Hyundais and the oval Kia badge were derivative of Honda and Ford respectively. I also felt as though they deliberately put in styling cues as well.

Totally agree - Kia has broken with the conservative mold of most Asian manufacturers (save for an expensive few hot rods like the GTR and F series Lexi) and put out an affordable hot rod with great features that has touches of Italian styling. It's not an M or an AMG but it certainly is innovative - and very f'in cool.

I disagree with your opinion. I think the Japs are making really crazy looking designs right now with tons of spear looking things and wild grills. Even the hybrids like the Prius are crazy looking to my eye. The Stinger looks like an Optima with some extra scoops tacked on.

 

[HotBadgerFart]

May want to tell Marchionne that: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...s-copied-design-cues-from-hyundai-103997.html

Imported from Detroit... and carbon copied from Korea. Probably doesn't help that a new Chrysler 200 was often cheaper than a Nissan Altima.

Also, you just described the process that has made Apple BILLIONS over the last 10 years.

Did you even read the article??? Here's an excerpt:
"Marchionne went on to explain that Chrysler designers did not copy the Hyundai Sonata, but they just made the same entry point to the rear seat. This mistake brings difficulty in rear seat access, and that is important for a midsize sedan. Marchionne even called the designers “dummies,” and stated that “some people from design left some of their private parts on the table after the determination.” "

Let's also not forget the Chrysler 200 has been discontinued. The Chrysler 200 was a rebadged/updated Sebring, equivalent more to a Nissan Sentra, if anything. The Altima is a much nicer car than the 200 was meant to be.

Apple may be worth billions, but tell me again about how innovative they are? They still haven't caught up with SAMSUNG.

 

[HotBadgerFart]

Totally agree - Kia has broken with the conservative mold of most Asian manufacturers (save for an expensive few hot rods like the GTR and F series Lexi) and put out an affordable hot rod with great features that has touches of Italian styling. It's not an M or an AMG but it certainly is innovative - and very f'in cool.

"Hot Rod." I lol'd.

 

[w3rkn]

Might want to look at what the Sonata did when it hit the showrooms (and tv commericals) in '2010 (the 2011 model dropped in Fed '10). Then look at what its direct competitors did AFTER the new Sonata dropped.

Might want to check the awards that car won too.

Style / looks is a personal preference thing and totally subjective. I would never have bought a Mustang based JUST on looks. And there are cars I LOVE the looks of, I would never buy because of how they drive / reliability / performance etc.

Kia predates Hyundai FYI - in the 1940's if memory serves.

And saying Kia = Hyundai is like saying Ford = Jaguar or any of the other multitude of auto manufacturers who own stake in each other and use joint platforms.

Remember - there are A LOT of cars that never get marketed here. Some for good reasons, some for stupid reasons. Doesn't mean they don't exist.

Saying that Kia / Hyundai don't "innovate" - they copy is actually pretty funny. Look at the "major" players 4 door mid size sedans in 2009. Then Sonata his in 2010. Now look at their 2011 and up models. LMAO

KIA didn't enter the US until the mid-90's and they were sh!tboxes... ultra cheap, with stolen designs (several lawsuits). Only mingers would buy one. I don't care about their "image" now, when was the last time KIA won engine of the year, or engineering awards..? KIA are for misfits who don't understand marketing.... and a car, is just a car to these people.

These same people buy Honda Fits... :headbonk: (all cute marketing, it not a car, it is a toy)


If you are in your 20's, then you would not understand the origins, of an "off-brand" auto manufacturer.

Additionally, everyone understand that during the fuel crisis, auto manufacturers tried to downsize their cars rather quickly and the big three were lethargic and slow. Imports increased, because American big three couldn't/wouldn't react fast enough. (UAW still makes car, those people still do their job. They didn't engineer, or design those cars, just made them.) That was a brief part of American manufacturing history, that produced some crap American brands (Cadillac Cimarron anyone?).


Secondly, it is laughable how you are talking about KIAs that are 9~10 years old. Of coarse KIA's engineering has gotten better, but it is not winning engineering awards.

And, NOBODY cares about the sonata either, it is a gross looking car. It was a numbers car, meant to boost their image and Hyundai's marketing worked on you.


And my point was the Mustang been made for 50 years, older than some of those new car companies. Some of which didn't come to United States until 1994, (I was 25 years of age). So of coarse they are considered off brands... dERP!

 

[ctandc72]

KIA didn't enter the US until the mid-90's and they were sh!tboxes... ultra cheap, with stolen designs (several lawsuits). Only mingers would buy one. I don't care about their "image" now, when was the last time KIA won engine of the year, or engineering awards..? KIA are for misfits who don't understand marketing.... and a car, is just a car to these people.

Had to look up 'minger'. You sir are a truly unique individual. Ever have a conversation with someone and tried to prove your point without throwing out insults?

I once heard a very successful man say "If they start throwing out insults or name calling, congratulations...you've won the argument."

These same people buy Honda Fits... :headbonk: (all cute marketing, it not a car, it is a toy)

So essentially - any vehicle that doesn't agree with YOUR sense of taste / style is shit. Got it.

If you are in your 20's, then you would not understand the origins, of an "off-brand" auto manufacturer.

In my 40's actually. Grew up around the car business. GM in fact. Worked on the service side, sales side and wholesale side before I ever graduated HS.

I understand "Off brand". Funny thing is - you don't.

Additionally, everyone understand that during the fuel crisis, auto manufacturers tried to downsize their cars rather quickly and the big three were lethargic and slow. Imports increased, because American big three couldn't/wouldn't react fast enough. (UAW still makes car, those people still do their job. They didn't engineer, or design those cars, just made them.) That was a brief part of American manufacturing history, that produced some crap American brands (Cadillac Cimarron anyone?).

I wasn't specifically talking about the gas crunch. Which one are you referring to? The '73 embargo, or the later snowball effect of that embargo - at least the mental effect on Detroit.

It wasn't the gas crunch that actually caused the shitstorm in the American auto industry in the 70's - it was heavy-handed and unrealistic EPA legislation - I'll let you look up who was in the Whitehouse when all these ridiculous regulations started being printed by the ton.

Mid 70's big three cars were pretty much shit for QC across the board and it had nothing to do with 'downsizing'.

I should know, I've owned and wrenched on a ton of them.

Styling is one thing. Power is another. Engineering sure. Quality Control? Doesn't matter if your car is a world beater - if you can't build the thing where it doesn't fall apart - it won't beat anything in the long run.

Might also want to check out the "revival" of Chrysler in the 80's. You, especially you, would likely be surprised how QC improved AFTER they brought in consultants from ASIAN car manufacturers.... Kinda doesn't fit your narrative.

And yes, UAW workers made them - many times sloppily and at a pay rate which dwarfed skilled trade workers at the time. Read some history. UAW's big wigs essentially soured many people against unions. Paying people to literally show up and read magazines / smoke cigarettes and drink beer? Yeah, no thanks.

Secondly, it is laughable how you are talking about KIAs that are 9~10 years old. Of coarse KIA's engineering has gotten better, but it is not winning engineering awards.

My god - can you even do a google search?

https://jalopnik.com/kia-is-awarded-coveted-markie-award-for-excellence-in-m-1798431407

https://www.kia.com/us/en/content/why-kia/leadership/awards/awards-kia-motors

http://www.jdpower.com/microsites/kia/home

Really?

And, NOBODY cares about the sonata either, it is a gross looking car. It was a numbers car, meant to boost their image and Hyundai's marketing worked on you.

Nobody huh?

https://www.roadandtravel.com/roadtests/reviews/2011roadtests/hyundai-sonata.html

That's just one. LET ME GOOGLE THAT FOR YOU

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=2011+hyundai+sonata+awards

Car and Driver, Road and Track...need me to keep going?

"Nobody"....LOL

And my point was the Mustang been made for 50 years, older than some of those new car companies. Some of which didn't come to United States until 1994, (I was 25 years of age). So of coarse they are considered off brands... dERP!

You really going to count the Mustang II in that equation? Pinto much? Hell, I know some Mustang guys who ignore 74-77 entirely. They pretend those years never happened.

No your point was that YOU don't like this, don't like that and you throw out opinions - representing them as facts, which you can't support.

No worries. Different stroke for different folks.

 

[ctandc72]

"Hot Rod." I lol'd.

They didn't

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-kia-stinger-gt-test-review

 

[WildHorse]

^^ SAYS the V6 guy :lol: :cheers:

 

[ctandc72]

^^ SAYS the V6 guy :lol: :cheers:

That's original. I've never heard that one. The V6 fits what I needed in a daily driver. If I had bought a GT, I like to tinker and I like to hit the 1/4 mile with my DD on a regular basis - I would have started breaking / upgrading and pretty soon my DD would be a weekend toy and I'd have to get another car to actually drive everyday.

And honestly, if I was going to spend the extra $ for a GT, that would have put me into a different territory of car.....the Mustang likely would not have won for the money.

I daily drove a 11 second 4th gen F-Body for 2 years. I daily drove a 12 second 3rd gen F-Body in the late 90's that handled better than it tripped the 1/4 mile timing lights.

Hell, I daily drove a 10 second '67 Chevelle (in the 80's when that actually meant something) but leaded premium was around a $1 a gallon and even then going more than 55mph was headache inducing with a BBC, 4 speed and 4.11 gears.

My favorite was a 11 second early 80's G-Body wagon (complete with faux wood paneling from the factory and wire wheels) with a '70 Caddy 500. It left the hole like it was on fire. With little fanfare and not a whole lot of effort. Sure it handled like a boat, which it was, but the look on sports car, muscle car and pony car owners' faces when the wagon left them at the line was absolutely priceless.

I'm not a kid looking to hop up a V6 Mustang because that's all I could afford. I'm 45 years old. My REAL go fast passion involves 2 wheels and track days. Have to wait until my kid finishes college to continue those. Wanna race my little "rice rocket"?

Would I pay $50K for the Kia Stinger GT? Nope. But if I was going to spend $50K, it wouldn't be on a car sitting on the lot. Either I'd start my '67 Chevelle (my first car was a '67 SS Chevelle) project or I'd hunt down a rust free early Vega or 240Z and dump a LSx / T56 in it and eat "sports cars" for lunch.

:cheers:

 

[lpe403]

Huh, I did google searches and looked at the cars and I don't see what you're talking about. I believe you, but it isn't apparent to me at all.

I always felt that even the H badge on the Hyundais and the oval Kia badge were derivative of Honda and Ford respectively. I also felt as though they deliberately put in styling cues as well.



I disagree with your opinion. I think the Japs are making really crazy looking designs right now with tons of spear looking things and wild grills. Even the hybrids like the Prius are crazy looking to my eye. The Stinger looks like an Optima with some extra scoops tacked on.

And I don't give a shit about your opinion.

"The Japs" - really? - you are a racist aSShole

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