Oil Drain valves.

[davekro]

FWIW: As I posted before, 9mm was the thickness of the GT pan PLUS the washer. 9mm will be flush with the inside of the GT pan. Look at the pictures in post 41. The pan itself is ~4 threads thick as shown by the unpainted portion of the factory drain plug. The 9mm thread length Femco valve has 4 threads past the washer.

David at Femco basically said what you have been saying. They sell 9mm because most are for vertical applications. They just don't get asked for 12mm, so they carry fewer of those. I've OCD'ed enough. I ordered (3) 9MM valves for our three vehicles.


I had a hard time locating my preferred oil filter Purolator PSL30001, which is an old school large oil filter w/ Synthetic filter media. Only found at Pep Boys online (no stores near me) for ≈$7.65 ea. I purchased an oil filter adapter from Doug (stangs-R-me) at my fist oil change at 1,000 mi.

Info from him about his adapter from metric to 3/4-16 so a full sized filter can be used is on post #6 at this thread:
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21374&highlight=oil+filter

Read more about it & see pics here ...
http://themustangsource.com/forums/f...s-3-7l-489066/

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[davekro]

Use Loctite with only 9 ft lbs of torque??

For V6 oil pan torque, I'd of never guessed it was higher than for the steel GT pan! Wow.

And David from Femco pulled one of the parts and said torque stated was 12 nm (That's only 8.85 ft lbs). I wonder if some mid level thread lock might be in order since this part will remain in place. Anyone familiar with which (non permanent) Loctite might be good for this application?

From Ford service manual (From Dana44 Thanks!)

Attached Images

 

[HoosierDaddy]

David at Femco basically said what you have been saying. They sell 9mm because most are for vertical applications. They just don't get asked for 12mm, so they carry fewer of those. I've OCD'ed enough. I ordered (3) 9MM valves for our three vehicles.


I had a hard time locating my preferred oil filter Purolator PSL30001, which is an old school large oil filter w/ Synthetic filter media. Only found at Pep Boys online (no stores near me) for ≈$7.65 ea. I purchased an oil filter adapter from Doug (stangs-R-me) at my fist oil change at 1,000 mi.

Info from him about his adapter from metric to 3/4-16 so a full sized filter can be used is on post #6 at this thread:
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21374&highlight=oil+filter

Read more about it & see pics here ...
http://themustangsource.com/forums/f...s-3-7l-489066/

Thanks for the info.

And you might want to switch to PBL30001 when you run out. I only use Purolator filters and PBLs are their new super-synthetic filters with even better specs. I am definitely looking into doing an adapter so I can use a larger filter like those. I would even like to go to a vertical remote mount for ease of access and the ability to pre-fill it. I'm not sure how to make sure there are no issues with bypass pressures with a different filter.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

And David from Femco pulled one of the parts and said torque stated was 12 nm (That's only 8.85 ft lbs).

That is disturbing to me. My M12x1.75-T9 SB compact was mislabeled to call for 25 ft.lbs. That was double what the LB version called for that I originally ordered due to their lookup not showing a T9 SB. I reported that and Kyle told me the factory mislabeled some but they thought they caught them and it should be 12 ft.lbs which is what I used. Now someone else at Femco is saying it should be 8.85 ft.lbs (12nm).

 

[GTP]

Geez this is analysis paralysis.

Tighten the drain plug like you would a spark plug - snug tight. Don't "torque it".
There is no load. It just needs to seal the gasket and then not vibrate out - just like a spark plug.

C'mon, call it Done.
.

 

[mustang_guy]

Geez this is analysis paralysis.

Tighten the drain plug like you would a spark plug - snug tight. Don't "torque it".
There is no load. It just needs to seal the gasket and then not vibrate out - just like a spark plug.

C'mon, call it Done.
.

It has a torque spec for a reason..

 

[keltymd]

It has a torque spec for a reason..

Yes the torque spec is based on the size of the bolt and load it can handle. With the hollow drain plug the load would be less than the solid bolts load. I have changed oil and been a me Janice for almost 30 years and have never used a torque wrench on a drain plug. Engine internals yes but never a drain plug b

 

[davekro]

That is disturbing to me. My M12x1.75-T9 SB compact was mislabeled to call for 25 ft.lbs. That was double what the LB version called for that I originally ordered due to their lookup not showing a T9 SB. I reported that and Kyle told me the factory mislabeled some but they thought they caught them and it should be 12 ft.lbs which is what I used. Now someone else at Femco is saying it should be 8.85 ft.lbs (12nm).

David at Femco Washington's reprt of 12 nm did not come from familiarity or knowing. He pulled a package from the shelf pulled a SB from the shelf and told me 12 nm. But I thought others here said some packages stated 12 ft lbs (aside from the errant 25 # on your package). I said really.. nm?? that's just 8.85 ft lbs?? He restated nm. I'm not real confident with Femco's torque specs.

As other recent posts, I'll go by feel and see what 12 Ft Lbs fees like. Not a big deal after all.

 

[mustang_guy]

Yes the torque spec is based on the size of the bolt and load it can handle. With the hollow drain plug the load would be less than the solid bolts load. I have changed oil and been a me Janice for almost 30 years and have never used a torque wrench on a drain plug. Engine internals yes but never a drain plug b

I have been a master tech for over 30 years and torque everything to spec. :shrug:

Especially drain bolts. They most definitely can back out. Id rather torque it to spec than potentially lose an engine.

 

[davekro]

I have been a master tech for over 30 years and torque everything to spec. :shrug:

Especially drain bolts. They most definitely can back out. Id rather torque it to spec than potentially lose an engine.

mustang_guy,
With the combination of a lower torque for the brass drain valve of 12 lb vs 20 lb (for V6) oem plug AND the fact that this valve only goes 1/4" (≈ 4 treads) into the cast aluminum oil pan, would it be OK or recommended to use a non permanent thread lock version of Loctite? Do you know which one (color) would be best?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I have been a master tech for over 30 years and torque everything to spec. :shrug:

Especially drain bolts. They most definitely can back out. Id rather torque it to spec than potentially lose an engine.

I agree.

Proof that using a torque wrench for drain plugs can save a lot of grief is the fairly common problem of drain plugs falling out or being stripped by quicky oil change places.

So its wrong for members to advise strangers that they should just do what feels right because there is no way of knowing if those strangers have any "feel" for it even if drain bolts/valves did have a wide range of survivable torque.

 

[mustang_guy]

mustang_guy,
With the combination of a lower torque for the brass drain valve of 12 lb vs 20 lb (for V6) oem plug AND the fact that this valve only goes 1/4" (≈ 4 treads) into the cast aluminum oil pan, would it be OK or recommended to use a non permanent thread lock version of Loctite? Do you know which one (color) would be best?

Honestly id never loctite any oil drain pan bolt. If you dont feel its snuggimg up enough i wouldnt use. Its a judgement call. Which is why im going back to fumoto.

 

[GTP]

Look up spark plug specs - 12 #ft is typical.
Ask an older mechanic - he will say he knows what that feels like without a wrench.

At any rate, I handed my Femco to the service advisor, with a note attached that requested 12 #ft of torque at my first oil change at the dealer.
The tech came out with my car and complimented both the drain plug and my car, and said he had no trouble with it.

3k miles later and one track day, and it is still there. :clap2: I also installed one into the wife's Acura, without a torque wrench, and her car is also fine.

Let's remember the whole idea for this: to replace the drain plug just once, and then it can be opened without any wrench thereafter.

 

[mustang_guy]

Look up spark plug specs - 12 #ft is typical.
Ask an older mechanic - he will say he knows what that feels like without a wrench.

At any rate, I handed my Femco to the service advisor, with a note attached that requested 12 #ft of torque at my first oil change at the dealer.
The tech came out with my car and complimented both the drain plug and my car, and said he had no trouble with it.

3k miles later and one track day, and it is still there. :clap2: I also installed one into the wife's Acura, without a torque wrench, and her car is also fine.

Let's remember the whole idea for this: to replace the drain plug just once, and then it can be opened without any wrench thereafter.

Im an old mechanic and i still use the wrench because mistakes happen especially if you're even slightly distracted. You can argue it all day long. Techs should live by their torque specs. If they arent, its a lack of give of shit or good enough mentality. Id appreciate you not insinuating that i dont know what im doing. Im very good at what i do.

 

[davekro]

Blue medium threadlocker 243

Honestly id never loctite any oil drain pan bolt. If you dont feel its snuggimg up enough i wouldnt use. Its a judgement call. Which is why im going back to fumoto.

Thanks for the reply. I think I'll just add a little bit of insurance to ease my mind and use Loctite Blue 243 which is the medium hold (not permanent like red). It replaces 242 because 243 now works in the presence of oil.

Since this valve will theoretically not be removed for the life of the vehicle, I feel there is no down side to adding a mild thread locker.

Edit:
I installed the Femco #6090010004 12mmx1.72-T9, Standard, SB drain valve on my V6. (first picture)
The length of the thread into to cast pan is 7/8". With the Femco valve in place the inner opening is just under ≈ 3/16" from bottom of the oil pan. I'll just plan on raising the driver's side of car a bit more than the passenger side.

(second picture) Because my other car has an angled plug like the Mustang GT, I'm posting a picture of it's longer 'Standard' Femco SB valve. GT's should definitely use the shorter 'Compact' version that hoosierdaddy recommends.

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