New speakers not cutting it for me and I don’t know why

[Gallatyn]

Just had my speakers and amplifier installed in my 2019 Bullitt. I must be doing something wrong because I am not happy at all with it. The B&O system with a cut center speaker and my 10” Kicker sub that I had before my current set up sounded much better. Especially at low to mid volume.

Current setup:
PAC AmpPRO AP4-FD21
PAC APH-FD01 Wiring 10' Interface-harness
Morel Maximo Ultra 603 MKII 100 RMS
Morel Maximo Coax 6 80 RMS
Kicker 10” CompR
AudioControl LC-1.800 500 watts @ 4 ohms
AudioControl ACM-4.300 4 X 50 watts @ 4 ohms
Sound deadener on doors and top of parcel shelf
Small speaker holes punched out on parcel shelf

The speakers sound shrill at low to mid volume and lacks fullness. Things start to fill out and sound better at higher volumes but still a bit shrill (or too high pitched). I’m going to have to check the crossovers and see if the installer put the tweeter output at 0 dB or +3 dB - maybe that’s part of it but I don’t think it’s all of it.

So, it sounds ok to kind of good at high volumes (20 +) but I usually listen at mid volume and it needs to sound good there. I’m wondering if I need to drive them with some more power. I usually drive my speakers close to their maximum RMS or a bit over. I had some DLS Gothia speakers (best speakers I’ve ever had so far) that I believe were 100 watts RMS and I drove them at 200 watts with a good Alpine amp and they sounded fantastic. Although, this may just give me the same result as I have now except I would only have to turn my volume up to 12 or 15 to match what I currently have at level 20 (which is louder than I normally want). I can’t remember if it works that way. It’s been a while since I’ve done things with car audio.

I’m thinking about getting the AudioControl LC-4.800 (4 X 125 watts @ 4 ohms) and seeing if that solves the issue. If not, then I’ll have to try another set of speakers.

Oh, and as a side note: Deadening the doors and top of parcel shelf really cut down on me hearing the exhaust note of my car. That kind of bums me out a little bit. I had used FORScan to remove the exhaust noises from being pumped into the speakers. That sounded great as the exhaust noise now came from the rear and from the actual exhaust where I expect to hear it and not all around me. Oh well.

Anybody have any recommendations for speakers if getting a different amplifier doesn’t solve my problems?

Maybe I just don’t like the sound of those speakers, but I want to give them a chance with a different amp.

Thanks! Have a good one.

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[Gallatyn]

Just realized that I'm also just amplifying the manipulated signal that Ford tuned and not a flat signal. I'm thinking that I need a line out converter or DSP.

 

[mrbydangel]

Just realized that I'm also just amplifying the manipulated signal that Ford tuned and not a flat signal. I'm thinking that I need a line out converter or DSP.

You can use Forscan to change to a flat signal output.

 

[Brian82]

I think that the B&O system amp already sends a flat signal and cant be changed in forscan. I could be mistaken but i have a similar set up as you and kind of feel the same way that it sounds good loud but kind of missing the mid level sound at lower volumes. Mines a 2020 with the B&O system. I think its just regular and premium trim levels that you can change in Forscan. I tried turning up the mid and low settings on the factory head unit and it helped a little bit but i think i may get a amp with a built in dsp in the future.

 

[MiamiGT350]

Sounds like the speakers are possibly under-powered. Have you tried adjusting the gain on them at the amp?

Also, you want to set your tweeters to -3db to keep them in an equalizer curve that doesn't sound harsh.

 

[5doorsoffury]

Yes the BO radio is tailored to there amps and sound stage presented by the BO speakers. going into forscan and setting everything flat is the first thing that should be done if the audio thru a fully aftermarket system( minus the head unit) that way you can set volume levels correctly and then go to eq tuning.

 

[Cathul]

Guys... check the list of equipment he's using...

He's got an AmpPro in it... so signal will be as good as can be.
What is not listed is a DSP of some sort.

Now go and find the error...

 

[Cathul]

Just realized that I'm also just amplifying the manipulated signal that Ford tuned and not a flat signal. I'm thinking that I need a line out converter or DSP.

As you listed an AmpPro device for integration this is not (!) your problem.

 

[Evolvd]

@Cathul beat me to it. The Amp Pro is giving a flat signal pulled from the source. The equalization and tuning is done at the stock amp.

My first guess (assuming everything was installed correctly) is that your system requires a good tune. Since it sounds like you’re running a passive system you’re relying on the amp being gain matched correctly, filters are set, and your crossovers are connected properly. If your speakers are receiving wattage in the recommended range then throwing more watts at them won’t make them sound better, just louder. Keep in mind RMS is considered the max continuous power they can handle effeciently.

Once you check all those and it still doesn’t sound correct I’d recommend stepping up to a DSP amp and then you can have full control of the way your system sounds.

 

[Gallatyn]

Hello, everyone. Here are my thoughts so far after reading the replies:

Addressing the installation:
The install was done by a reputable shop where I’ve had work done before. Being human, yes mistakes can happen. I’m going to go through the other items before I look at this one.

Addressing the AmpPro:
Did some more digging. It looks like the PAC AmpPRO AP4-FD21 is supposed to supply a flat signal. Furthermore, there is an app that can be used to modify the factory 3 band EQ. Later, I may look into the ability to change certain settings for the factory EQ. It’s good to know that I should be starting with a flat signal out of the AP4-FD21.

Action for this: For now, I’m pretty sure I can rule out the AmpPro as a problem.

Addressing the Morel front speaker crossover:
I’ve read that the crossover for the tweeter can be set to 0 dB or +3 dB via a jumper.

Action for this: I need to check and make sure it is set at 0dB.

Addressing the amp (AudioControl ACM -4.300):
I’ve adjusted the gains a little bit to see if that helped. I haven’t put a multimeter to it to make sure that it is putting out the desired voltage for 50 watts. I actually just bought a handheld oscilloscope that I was thinking about using as well. Either way, I need to check that. I usually like to have my speaker amp output closer to the speaker max RMS than what I currently have set up. I just used this amp because I was told that it gets plenty loud. However, to me, SQ trumps loud volume.

The amp is grouped into channel 1 & 2 and 3 & 4. Each group has a “High Pass Crossover” switch that can be set to 80 Hz, 120 Hz or bypass. I’ve had it at 80 and 120 (knowing there’s no way that’s I want) and bypass. I’m leaving it at bypass. I don’t want the front speakers losing out on frequencies I know it can play. My sub and its amp do fine making up for lower frequencies that my fronts can’t handle.

Action for this: Need to probe output channels and adjust gains accordingly.

Addressing the front speakers:
I know the mid-range speaker is a little smaller than most (2 in) but have read that they do their job well. I went with this speaker set because I read that it was one of the easier ones to install for the mid-range requiring minimal cutting, if any. Although, I’ve personally never listened to Morel speakers before.

I’m dying to know if it’s the speakers and if any set I get installed would sound just as anemic.

Action for this: undecided for now

Conclusion:
So, I’m left with a gamble if the Morel crossover for highs isn’t the issue and ensuring correct amp gains isn’t the issue: I can either try new front speakers or introduce DSP.

New front speakers:
I *think* this would be the fastest way to determine if it’s the speakers or not. If it’s the speakers then great, problem solved. If not, then I’ve just paid for more speakers.

Introducing DSP:
In my opinion, the pro for going with DSP first is that the DSP unit can always be used no matter which speakers I have installed and it might even solve the problem. The main con for me would be if I can use the software well enough to solve the problem or well enough to know that no matter what I do with the software that it won’t fix the issue. I’d get an AudioConntrol DM-608. I like their stuff so far. I’ve used their DQ-61 before in another car and it worked very well.

It seems like the wisest thing to do would be go for the DSP first since I can always use it to make my overall system sound better and that it may actually solve the problem.

However, my gut is telling me to go with new front speakers first - just to quickly see if it’s that one thing. I’d buy a more popular set that’s known to be very good and well balanced even if the mid-range speaker requires more cutting to install. If I go that route I would also listen to the speakers first somewhere to get a general feel of how the speakers sound to me.

Thanks to everyone for your input. Especially @Evolvd , @Cathul , @MiamiGT350

Of course, any more constructive suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Evolvd]

I’ve never heard anything bad about Morel, they’ve been around for awhile. I have zero experience with them though.

As for the mids, if you decide to change them out look into the adapters sold by Sounds Good Stereo. They are cut from HDPE and exactly match the bolt pattern of the stock speaker mount. They also come with pigtails to connect to your OEM wire plug. The only limiting factor is the basket/motor depth of the speaker since there is the door support beam right behind that mount location. You can find them here: https://soundsgoodstereo.com/produc...ge-adapter-for-aftermarket-mid-range-speakers

If you have questions about fitment of specific speakers you can call them with the physical dimensions and they’ll tell you if they should fit. I did this with my JL Audio C7 mids and they fit perfectly.
They also have adapters for the 6.5s and can be used in front and rear.

 

[Gallatyn]

I’ve never heard anything bad about Morel, they’ve been around for awhile. I have zero experience with them though.

As for the mids, if you decide to change them out look into the adapters sold by Sounds Good Stereo. They are cut from HDPE and exactly match the bolt pattern of the stock speaker mount. They also come with pigtails to connect to your OEM wire plug. The only limiting factor is the basket/motor depth of the speaker since there is the door support beam right behind that mount location. You can find them here: https://soundsgoodstereo.com/produc...ge-adapter-for-aftermarket-mid-range-speakers

If you have questions about fitment of specific speakers you can call them with the physical dimensions and they’ll tell you if they should fit. I did this with my JL Audio C7 mids and they fit perfectly.
They also have adapters for the 6.5s and can be used in front and rear.

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

 

[Gallatyn]

One other thing that I didn't mention. The absolute first thing I'm going to do is use one of my RTA tools and do a crude test to see if there are any glaring gaps or problems with any frequencies or range of frequencies.

 

[Evolvd]

One other thing that I didn't mention. The absolute first thing I'm going to do is use one of my RTA tools and do a crude test to see if there are any glaring gaps or problems with any frequencies or range of frequencies.

I bet you find some.

 

[Gallatyn]

I bet you find some.

Me too. I also didn't realize how well the sound deadening would work. It's working too well. The sound of the exhaust and engine noise is so low now, that I'm not upshifting when I normally would. I can't hear nearly as well that the engine is revving higher. I use the sound more than looking a the tach during everyday driving. I have to have it back to the way it was even if it means the cabin acoustics won't be as good for audio (it isn't good anyway). I didn't know it was going to make that big of an impact to my driving experience. I have removed the engine noise from being pumped into the speakers via FORScan and loved the result of only hearing those noises from the back. Live and learn, I guess.

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