Mustang Hybrid (S650) Announced, Debuts in 2020

[Norm Peterson]

I hear ya - sadly, it's been the natural progression of the auto industry across the board. In today's society, technology is king, and the little bells and whistles are what sells cars - whether we're talking about a Mustang or Malibu.

A base model today has more tech options than a decked out model 10 years ago, and this has basically always held true since the invention of the automobile.

Lots of people want the nostalgia of bare bones muscle cars, but in reality modern features are what sells cars, and that's what Ford is looking to do.

Perhaps history will repeat itself . . . originally, hotrodding came about because the performance of affordable mainstream cars wasn't good enough for a few folks. We could see something similar with respect to the subjective impressions of actually driving not being enjoyable enough for a different group of people - as opposed to simply being a passenger with a steering wheel and pedals in front of them in a mobile living room - who might just DIY their own "fixes" like the 1930's guys did on a strictly mechanical level. I'm not quite old enough to have witnessed the beginnings of that era of hotrodding, but I'd like to see a 2030's version that puts the driving back into driving and simplicity into the cars.


Norm

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[Bravo]

Perhaps history will repeat itself . . . originally, hotrodding came about because the performance of affordable mainstream cars wasn't good enough for a few folks. We could see something similar with respect to the subjective impressions of actually driving not being enjoyable enough for a different group of people - as opposed to simply being a passenger with a steering wheel and pedals in front of them in a mobile living room - who might just DIY their own "fixes" like the 1930's guys did on a strictly mechanical level. I'm not quite old enough to have witnessed the beginnings of that era of hotrodding, but I'd like to see a 2030's version that puts the driving back into driving and simplicity into the cars.


Norm

With the advent of autonomous vehicles (it's coming, and there's nothing that will stop it), what will likely happen is that the automobile as we know it today will go the way of the horse. This means both how the vehicle is powered (gas to electric), and how it is driven (human controlled vs computer controlled).

That doesn't mean that driving cars will be lost forever, just as riding horses is still a huge recreational activity in much of America.

When driving cars is restricted to private tracks, fewer people will be buying cars with the purpose of actually driving them. This could very well cause a full circle in car production, with bare bones cars being built for track use only. It could literally feel like the production muscle cars of long ago, with nice modern perks added (air bags, power steering / disc brakes, etc).

As for where we might drive, I suspect there will be many private tracks within a reasonable distance. The "horse stable" in this case will become a "pony garage".

Here is one destination that many will likely seek:

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...k-in-the-world-is-being-built-in-america.html

 

[jasonstang]

I really hope they decide to down size the mustang. It's gotten wayyy to big and heavy.
Keep it under 3500lbs and 7/8th of the size right now, small displacement V8 with turbo.
Active aero. A hybrid is okay as long as it's for performance not economy.

 

[Ebm]

.

I really hope they decide to down size the mustang. It's gotten wayyy to big and heavy.
Keep it under 3500lbs and 7/8th of the size right now, small displacement V8 with turbo.
Active aero. A hybrid is okay as long as it's for performance not economy.

Modern cars aren't downsizing. They are getting bigger and heavier. They can afford to make them bigger by using cheaper and lighter materials to make the car out of. Downside being one accident could total the car. I can't see the Mustang getting any smaller or lighter than it is. I also can't see a v8 with a turbo. A v8 is already too gas thirsty. You will either see an I4 turbo or v6 turbo going forward. Although I'd bet an I6 turbo would probably sound pretty good.

 

[jasonstang]

Modern cars aren't downsizing. They are getting bigger and heavier. They can afford to make them bigger by using cheaper and lighter materials to make the car out of. Downside being one accident could total the car. I can't see the Mustang getting any smaller or lighter than it is. I also can't see a v8 with a turbo. A v8 is already too gas thirsty. You will either see an I4 turbo or v6 turbo going forward. Although I'd bet an I6 turbo would probably sound pretty good.

I like the size of my WRX. Perfect size for a sports car with decent storage capacity.
The Mustang is just too fat and big. It's ridiculously heavy.
A small turbo V8 will not be too thirsty just like any other configuration. You can make a inline 4 thirsty if you want. It's not the configuration. The reason keeping a V8 is because engine noise. I hate the sound of a V6.

 

[millhouse]

I like the size of my WRX. Perfect size for a sports car with decent storage capacity.
The Mustang is just too fat and big. It's ridiculously heavy.
A small turbo V8 will not be too thirsty just like any other configuration. You can make a inline 4 thirsty if you want. It's not the configuration. The reason keeping a V8 is because engine noise. I hate the sound of a V6.

The mustang size is perfect as it is. If I wanted a compact car, I'd buy a focus RS. Those that don't understand that should buy a used Ford Probe.

 

[Ebm]

I like the size of my WRX. Perfect size for a sports car with decent storage capacity.
The Mustang is just too fat and big. It's ridiculously heavy.
A small turbo V8 will not be too thirsty just like any other configuration. You can make a inline 4 thirsty if you want. It's not the configuration. The reason keeping a V8 is because engine noise. I hate the sound of a V6.

No doubt the ecoboost Mustang is thirsty on boost. Can you imagine the same thirst on the GT plus 4 more cylinders. It wouldn't be good. Plus, it wouldn't make sense to add more power to a top end that already zooms. Supercharged v8 from the factory would make more sense, but I doubt it. People are already upset about a price increase. An increase because of a supercharger would send people over the edge.

 

[Norm Peterson]

No doubt the ecoboost Mustang is thirsty on boost. Can you imagine the same thirst on the GT plus 4 more cylinders.

It's not just about the number of cylinders. Or on any assumption that the current 5-liter class will be maintained - how big each of those 8 cylinders are matters. too. Not counting the flathead motors, Ford has had V8 engines as regular production fitment from as small as 221 CID (3.6L) up to at least as large as 460 CID (7.5L).

Whether there's any chance of Ford doing some sort of forced induction on a 4-liter(ish) V8 is anybody's guess. Safe to say that the people who would buy a car equipped with a forced induction V8 aren't going to be too concerned with mpg . . . several years of S197 GT500's being evidence enough.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

With the advent of autonomous vehicles (it's coming, and there's nothing that will stop it), what will likely happen is that the automobile as we know it today will go the way of the horse. This means both how the vehicle is powered (gas to electric), and how it is driven (human controlled vs computer controlled).

Don't be in such a hurry to embrace a possible future that hasn't been fully thought out yet. All those blue-sky promises are made with agendas in mind and potential downsides ignored or downplayed.

When driving cars is restricted to private tracks, fewer people will be buying cars with the purpose of actually driving them.

Are you really expecting enough of these sales to make this niche self-sustaining (let alone enough to support mfr competition)? More or less, you're describing today's "Pro-Touring" segment except with a small regular production instead of one car at a time in home garages and small businesses.

As for where we might drive, I suspect there will be many private tracks within a reasonable distance. The "horse stable" in this case will become a "pony garage".

Here is one destination that many will likely seek:

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...k-in-the-world-is-being-built-in-america.html

IOW, out of reasonable financial reach for most people unless they also offer a few track days for the public at large. NJMP (my home tracks) has a similar business plan, and every so often they open up another section of garages for purchase.


With any luck, such a bleak automotive future will be closer to 50 years out.


Norm

 

[EJS2016]

V8, V6, I4, Ecoboost, Supercharged, Hybrid or Electric...

Myriad governmental, safety and environmental regulations, global industry competition/consumer preferences and demands, multiple engineering/manufacturing/new technology and innovation analyses, material/labor costs, rates of return on capital investments and surely many other variables will determine the Mustang of the future.

I'm certainly not an expert, but surely Ford has all of this stuff figured out....for the foreseeable future anyway.

Ford will bulld the best Mustangs it possibly can for you, me and the rest of the world.
However, will not be the same kind of Mustang many of us grew up with.
It will be cutting-edge and offer the latest technological, connectivity and mobility innovations to meet the demands of advanced-user consumers...I'll get there one day.

And if it's a Mustang, it will have to be FAST!

 

[NoVaGT]

Just when I thought this myth was dead and gone..

It's no myth. There was even a video-chat with the S550 development leaders form Ford where they said exactly that.

 

[Bravo]

Don't be in such a hurry to embrace a possible future that hasn't been fully thought out yet. All those blue-sky promises are made with agendas in mind and potential downsides ignored or downplayed.

Norm

I understand the fear factor that is tossed around, especially in the automotive community, but I can tell you for certain that the technology to be fully autonomous already largely exists.

I work in the transportation industry and am heavily involved in remote sensing / remote data collection. The tools that I use to collect and model existing road conditions are already being placed in the grilles and headliners of vehicles, and it's not new tech.

Audi first made a fully autonomous trip from SF to Vegas over five years ago now when the technology was in its infancy. The strides that have been made since then have been tremendous, and will only improve as sensing and processing times speed up.

The biggest concern that I constantly hear is, "what happens when something goes wrong?", and the answer is, the same thing that happens when something goes wrong today. The reality is that things will go wrong far less often.

It's a sad fact that we are driving among a population that is far more interested in their social media feed than the pavement flying beneath their bottom. We live in a world where our cars are constantly becoming safer, and yet the number of auto accidents and fatalities continues to increase annually. The absolute only way that this statistic reverses itself at this point is when we hand over control of our vehicles. Whether we like it or not, it will be the single greatest improvement to the transportation industry since the invention of the automobile itself.

--This is way off topic from the original post, but I'd be happy to post an off topic thread to discuss autonomous tech further

Are you really expecting enough of these sales to make this niche self-sustaining (let alone enough to support mfr competition)? More or less, you're describing today's "Pro-Touring" segment except with a small regular production instead of one car at a time in home garages and small businesses.

Self sustaining? Yes - in the same way that horse sales are niche and are still available for purchase nearly everywhere. FYI - a setup for horse riding will easily put you into the price range of some new vehicles.

You're right in thinking that Ford/Chevy/Dodge won't be making the manual driving track vehicles. That would be a failed business model from the start. Instead, you'll have businesses working to refurbish older models, or build track cars from the ground up.

IOW, out of reasonable financial reach for most people unless they also offer a few track days for the public at large. NJMP (my home tracks) has a similar business plan, and every so often they open up another section of garages for purchase.

Out of reach right now - add an entire generation that lives to drive and the private track landscape will change dramatically.

With any luck, such a bleak automotive future will be closer to 50 years out.

I truly think you're over-estimating that time frame. I see autonomous highway driving being readily available within a decade, and further implementations soon thereafter once the public sees the benefits.

I constantly get backlash from the auto community with discussions like this - I really love driving, but to put on tunnel vision and refuse to believe that this is coming is absurd. It's best to embrace it for what it is, and realize that it will change your life, for better and worse.

 

[millhouse]

I truly think you're over-estimating that time frame. I see autonomous highway driving being readily available within a decade, and further implementations soon thereafter once the public sees the benefits.

Considering it's available today, I would say closer to 5 years.

With that said, we are a long...long...long ways off from mandated fully autonomous. To do so would require making said vehicles affordable on the used market for lower income households.

 

[Lorne34]

Considering it's available today, I would say closer to 5 years.

With that said, we are a long...long...long ways off from mandated fully autonomous. To do so would require making said vehicles affordable on the used market for lower income households.

I'm on the short track myself now. Just turned 52 and bought my first V8 Mustang Muscle car.. (wanted one since high school). I figure in 10+ years I will be retired and driving my car for enjoyment purposes only. I think the younger generation as a whole views driving as a utilitarian thing and would be much happier staring at their cell phones while something else controls the car..:tsk:.... It will be just like the original road warrior movie ---"The last of the V8 Interceptors"....

 

[Lorne34]

:cheers:

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