Has the Coyote lost significant low RPM power through the generations?

[Torque123]

Test drove a Mach 1. Liked some aspects of the car, but a deal breaker for me was it felt really wimpy at low RPM compared to my nearly stock gen 1 Coyote. I was a bit suspicious as I had read a recent thread here on the Mach 1 describing not shifting into 6th until quite high speeds and some drivers even rarely using 6th. The car I drove, which had low miles, was really lifeless until 3000-4000. This is with 3.73.

I have 3.31 and it pulls really good at 2000, even lower. I do not downshift on the highway in 55 zone to pass unless it's a really tight situation.

I know the Boss intake was not helpful in this way, were there other changes made to trade low RPM power for high? I know the compression was bumped which would help somewhat.

If I were running on the track, this would be a non-issue, one would be revving it. But i'm on the street, where having that punch without a lot of dramatic revving is important to me. I feel like all these comparo videos with drag racing fail to capture the real world feel of a car's engine in more realistic circumstances. And actually the turbos probably are hard to beat in this regard for the torque ramping up early (Supra, M2, M240i).

I suppose other factors in this are, the Mach is around 300 pounds heavier than my car, and has 275 heavier wheels and tires on the back while I have 245.

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[ZXMustang]

Tq management has been increased over the years. There are TONS of tq management tables in the stock tune that need to be maxed out to get the full power potential of the coyote. There is a new table from 2022 on that is called "dual foot". It limits the car's tq output to very low levels when you are trying to do a brake tq burnout. My car wouldnt barely do a brake tq burnout when it was stationary with both gas and brake on. Once we raised that table to the max, the car would blow off the tires in 1st or 2nd sitting still with the brake and gas on.

Its all in the tuning of these cars.

Stock

Maxed out

 

[GrabberBargeCaptain]

Tq management has been increased over the years. There are TONS of tq management tables in the stock tune that need to be maxed out to get the full power potential of the coyote. There is a new table from 2022 on that is called "dual foot". It limits the car's tq output to very low levels when you are trying to do a brake tq burnout. My car wouldnt barely do a brake tq burnout when it was stationary with both gas and brake on. Once we raised that table to the max, the car would blow off the tires in 1st or 2nd sitting still with the brake and gas on.

Its all in the tuning of these cars.

Does not surprise me at all especially in first gear. I was surprised when I test drove the car as well.. it didnt help that the dealer had 87 in the fuel tank.. there's a bit of a "vtec yo" to these cars after 4000 rpm. Warranty claims on drivetrain components, and maybe all those videos of people crashing leaving parking lots made Ford do it

I do remember my cousins 2016 with 3.73s being quite a bit more potent in the low end but it didnt pull nearly as hard to redline in the upper end of the tach.

 

[ZXMustang]

Does not surprise me at all especially in first gear. I was surprised when I test drove the car as well.. it didnt help that the dealer had 87 in the fuel tank.. there's a bit of a "vtec yo" to these cars after 4000 rpm. Warranty claims on drivetrain components, and maybe all those videos of people crashing leaving parking lots made Ford do it

I do remember my cousins 2016 with 3.73s being quite a bit more potent in the low end but it didnt pull nearly as hard to redline in the upper end of the tach.

Yeah they are tq limited in every which way you can think of. Drag mode is about the least watered down mode, but still has a ton which can be refined to make the car feel like it has almost 500hp.

 

[K4fxd]

I'm assuming manual trans?

The gear ratios were changed in the trans.

 

[GrabberBargeCaptain]

I'm assuming manual trans?

The gear ratios were changed in the trans.

A big part of that is also avoiding the gas guzzler tax, which I think was avoided until the '24 models.

 

[PoCoBob]

How invasive is the traction control? Just by the butt dyno my car feels much stronger at the low end just by turning the t/c off.

 

[ZXMustang]

How invasive is the traction control? Just by the butt dyno my car feels much stronger at the low end just by turning the t/c off.

Its more invasive than you can actually see. When you see WOT logs from cars with TC on, you can still see tq control/tq management coming on even when the car has full traction. Might not be good ole traction control, but its a different type that you cant turn off. But yes normal TC off helps a bunch.

 

[young at heart]

I’ve had five 22-23s and one 20. Still have the 20 GT and two 23 Mach 1s. None of them have been torque monsters under 3500 rpms but no way could you describe them as wimpy. No way. And from 3500-7500 they’ll pretty much tear your eyeballs out. I’ve never driven an older one so I can’t compare but mine run like I would have expected a small displacement 4-cam engine to run. In fact, I recently took a very car savvy buddy (has 911 turbo, Cayenne and new GT3RS) for a ride in my M6 Mach 1 with only 900 miles on the clock) and he commented that it felt noticeably stronger than any big block Corvette either of us had back in the mid-late 60s.

Here are some thoughts:

*Open up the exhaust to track mode. It’s not just psychological, you can feel the difference.

*Flip the car into dragstrip mode to do a pull.

*Completely disable Traction Control. IMPORTANT! You’d think TC would help acceleration but it’s counterintuitive. If your tires are loose it’s cutting timing. And strangely, I can’t always hear the tires spinning on this car but I can usually feel it.

*Make sure the car is running straight 93 octane. I had a couple dealers cheap out on me and do the delivery fill up with 87/91 octane before I caught them and it makes a BIG difference.

Good luck!

 

[WildHorse]

It never had low end power to begin with.

 

[Torque123]

Yes I am comparing two MT cars. Mine has FRPP tune. As I recall that did help the low end noticeably. Not to the extent of the difference felt, though. And old girl would feel even better if I installed the same 3.73.

 

[kz]

Yes I am comparing two MT cars. Mine has FRPP tune.

What you are completely missing are the transmission ratios - which K4fxd has already pointed out. Mach 1 has Tremec and different Coyote generations (or really "model years" of the cars) are matched to different versions of MT-82. Between 15-17 and 18-23 difference in first two gears is enormous and has nothing to do with the engine.

 

[Hack]

Starting in 2018, Ford messed up the manual transmission ratios (my opinion).

Anyway, another my opinion... if you want a manual transmission Mustang that's fun to drive on the street, buy a 2017 or earlier car.

This is one reason why I bought a used 2017 this last go around rather than buying a newer GT or Mach 1. I think the Mach front end styling is beautiful and I love the handling pack rim design, but the gearing was a no for me. It's similar to the GT350 gearing. Works good for the road course, but for driving on the street I don't want first gear to rev out to ~50 mph. It makes the engine seem really crappy.

Why even have 6 gears if you really only need first and second? .. end rant.

 

[Oakley]

How invasive is the traction control? Just by the butt dyno my car feels much stronger at the low end just by turning the t/c off.

my performance pack traction control doesn't really interfere very much.
back im the day launching anywhere near 5K was considered stupid unless you had a rice burner but in these cars anything below 4K is going to bog.

 

[GrabberBargeCaptain]

Starting in 2018, Ford messed up the manual transmission ratios (my opinion).

Anyway, another my opinion... if you want a manual transmission Mustang that's fun to drive on the street, buy a 2017 or earlier car.

This is one reason why I bought a used 2017 this last go around rather than buying a newer GT or Mach 1. I think the Mach front end styling is beautiful and I love the handling pack rim design, but the gearing was a no for me. It's similar to the GT350 gearing. Works good for the road course, but for driving on the street I don't want first gear to rev out to ~50 mph. It makes the engine seem really crappy.

Why even have 6 gears if you really only need first and second? .. end rant.

Gas guzzler tax I am betting. Adding another 1-2 grand on top of a GT and it’s getting ridiculous

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