EcoBoost upgrade question.

[Glenn G]

I can respect what you are saying, however there are no roads in the US where someone can travel at those types of sustained speeds. Even in Florida, there are an abundance of police state, county and local. Not to mention all of the wildlife that you could..."meet". If we were talking about a race application I would definitely agree with you. For a road car that is not as lucky to have your roads like you.

I agree that the speeds I do on a daily basis are impossibly dangerous in the U.S. but even sitting in traffic I find the oil temp consistently in top 3rd of the gauge while water temp remains solidly in the middle. I do agree with you that on the track with the stock radiator it would be a close race to see what over heated first, oil or water, but I'd be willing to bet that the oil temp would red line far more often than water. I plan on getting the Mishimoto coolers for both after I go big turbo.

Sponsored

 

[Glenn G]

Yeah I will never probably never hit over 100, even where I live there is a road that is 10miles long and not a single person to worry about hardly.
But there is deer that love to jump out in front of you lol. How I killed my last mustang. However it would be nice to know that if I ever went over the governors limit of 120 that the drive shaft will hold up lol. Remember hearing the older mustangs had issues going over the governor limit of I think 115?

Intercooler will be my first buy then. Probably get one of the Mishimoto seeing how it simply replaces the stock one.

I have the MAP FMIC which is very similar to the Mishimoto one. I have 0 issues and push my car harder than most. Remaining as close to stock appearing was important to me and I liked not having to delete the grill shutters to maintain that stock appearance. The CPE FMIC looks great and you can't go wrong with it but if you aren't chasing huge power the Mishimoto and MAP stock location upgrades will support 450whp comfortably.

 

[marjen]

Yeah for stock replacement go with cp-e. I have one in my car and the car is much more consistent. Before it would really be all over the place performance wise. Sometimes it pulled strong, sometimes it felt like it was struggling. I have been real happy with the new intercooler.

 

[Lsstefan]

This car is in far more need of an oil cooler than a radiator upgrade. I have a base with the smaller radiator and have no problems with coolant temps after long high speed Autobahn runs. Oil frequently ends up in the yellow. Most CAIs lose power compared to stock, but the noise is cool. Intercooler is a must on this car, no question, and the stock tune is garbage. Downpipe is good to help fix the top end and a cat back exhaust is also good for noise by itself and a few ponies with a do.

:O How can you oil end up in yellow? Mine goes to the middle of the green band and one time when I drove on curvy roads like a maniac, it went to the right by @5 degrees(geometry). I use Motul atm, but I will switch to a Castrol in 1000 km to clean it a bit. Still yellow? :O

Another question, for my own knowledge. Isn't the radiator cooling the "water" that takes the heat from the oil running thru the car?

 

[Chris@Lethal]

Despite owning several mustangs now, I have never been to the forums lol. Figured this would be a great place to learn more and maybe some of you more knowledgeable guys can help me out on a few questions I have.

Just Bought a new 2016 EcoBoost and I'm wanting to try and get a bit more out of it. With it still being stock, what would be the best upgrade first? Kinda stuck with either buying a new intercooler first or intake. Maybe even just buy a tuner first?

Also for the life of me I cant find this answer on google at all. Is the drive shaft the same in both base model and premium?

I would recommend going with the Cobb AP Programmer and a upgraded Front Mount Intercooler. Those two paired together are an amazing combo. The tune is the best power for the price all day!

Here a link of the programmer and a few different intercoolers.

Cobb AP:

http://www.lethalperformance.com/cobb-tuning-access-port-v3-mustang-2015-ecoboost.html

Intercooler:

http://www.lethalperformance.com/2015-mustang-ecoboost-2-3l/2015/cooling-2/intercoolers

 

[commanderfluffy]

As soon as i get this last bit paid off my credit card I will order the intercooler and programmer together. Would an aftermarket intercooler void warranty at all?

 

[Busser48]

As soon as i get this last bit paid off my credit card I will order the intercooler and programmer together. Would an aftermarket intercooler void warranty at all?

Not really, but a tuner will

 

[Glenn G]

As soon as i get this last bit paid off my credit card I will order the intercooler and programmer together. Would an aftermarket intercooler void warranty at all?

No It shouldn't,

I have the MAP intercooler in black and the ford tech at my closest dealership was looking at my mods and asked me why I hadn't upgraded the intercooler.:lol: You need to remove the bumper to see the difference and that's what I wanted, Even my stock grill shutters are intact.

 

[l2frankie]

Went to the dealer with full bolt ons, meth, tuned and still got my ac fixed under warranty. Infact they replaced my downpipe C clamp cause they installed in with the bolt facing down and i broke it going up a ramp.

 

[Busser48]

Went to the dealer with full bolt ons, meth, tuned and still got my ac fixed under warranty. Infact they replaced my downpipe C clamp cause they installed in with the bolt facing down and i broke it going up a ramp.

Your A/c would have nothing to do with your bolt ons, or downpipe clamp. Yes some dealers are easier, but if your turbo, or engine had issues, it might be a different story.

 

[commanderfluffy]

damn wish I had ordered an intercooler sooner so i could have it installed before my vacation to the keys lol. Going to be a long 4 hour drive in this hot ass Florida weather. think for now i will upgrade anything that will not void my warranty. Is i ca reset my tune to factory they would probably never know LOL.

I will say an intercooler is going to help with it being 96-99+ degrees l lately.

 

[5.0yote]

No, only if you upgrade the turbo or want more noise.

No it's not needed

No, a new billet BOV does provide a crisper throttle response off boost I have noticed (between shifts) and my boost tends to come on a hair faster when I have the Compact shorty from TS. IT was a noticeable change, not just noise.

 

[rubyinla]

Don't forget, if something happens and you want warranty coverage....

 

[jtmat]

As soon as i get this last bit paid off my credit card I will order the intercooler and programmer together. Would an aftermarket intercooler void warranty at all?

I replaced only the rear speakers in my car and mufflers on my car and my local dealer refused to look at the car for interior noise after noting those changes. Seriously. I was asking them to look at interior noise in the front of the car and some metal knocking in the rear (sounds like it was coming from the backseat area).

I think you have to ask yourself if you can afford to replace an engine if you have a major failure.

Am I spreading FUD? No... my experience shocked me a bit... still not sure I believe the conversation I had with the dealer and then calling Ford and then nothing happening (Ford is not in your corner... but I did not push it either, not enough time).

 

[TheLion]

I would suggest an intercooler before anything else. Of all the ecoboost engines, the IC in the 2.3L mustang is the most inadequate even for a bone stock car. You get a 1 gear pull before the outlet temp exceeds 150F.

Once you exceed 150F the PCM/ECM begins to limit throttle and retard timing in order to prevent knock, which is a catastrophic condition if not corrected shortly after occurring (hence why the PCM safeguards kick in).

Ford targeted four areas to detune the 2.3L ecoboost engine to meet their project requirement of the Mustang EB being 125HP less than the V8. The prototype 2.3L as it was originally envision was making around 400HP. The target areas were the downpipe, intercooler, downsizing the turbo and then detuning the PCM firmware.

If you do a bit of searching on this forum, there is a very long and detailed thread of a college student whose professor used to work for Ford Global and was involved as a project manager for the development of the 2.3L EB and details all of this things.

It also explains why the 2.3L EB gains so much power with such simple changes that normally would net you quite a bit less on other turbo charged engines.

As an engineer myself (B.S. EE), based on the outlet temp of the factory intercooler, Ford went too far in detuning the 2.3L EB because they affected it's consistency. After 1 or 2 gear pulls, the 2.3L EB isn'g even going to make it's rated HP and TQ due to heat soaking of the IC and the PCM safegaurds kicking in.

Safegaurds are good, they go a long way in making the 2.3L EB or any of the other EB engines reliable. However the engine shouldn't be being pushed to those points even under hard driving as it came from the factory.

For daily driving around town, merging on to highways and quick passes with only a single gear the factory IC is barely adequate. My 2016 EB 6MT is a a nice daily driver and gets great gas mileage. However playing around on back roads where I can go through 2-3 gears full throttle and do it over again or on a track it's well beyond its limits.

There are many articles noting that the Mustang EB looses power when its pushed hard. Same with the focus ST, but not to the same extent. Now the user manual does actually state that for track use ALL cooling systems need to be upgraded, so it's well documented the factory systems are inadequate for sustained heavy use even at factory power levels.

That to me is a deficiency. I can take my old 2007 Focus St and run it WOT all day and not have any loss in performance, heat issues etc. It just works as it came form the factory. But I digress, the issue here is simply that the factory IC is inadequate for any serious driving which is the core nature of the car.

In my opinion Ford went too far in detuning the 2.3L EB in the mustang because they compromised consistency, the car cannot even make it's stated power after 1 or 2 gear WOT pulls, high ambient temps exacerbate the issue even further.

The first 1 through 3 gear pull I did with my 2016 EB I was baffled by the weakness of 3rd gear. 1 and 2 were blazingly strong pull, followed by an anemic 3rd which is disproportionate to the jump in ratio. Yet if I'm in 3rd gear already wound up at about 3k rpm and punch it, I get a strong pull. This is all explained by the heat soak. By the time I hit 3rd, my outlet temps are almost 200F+, which is very counterproductive to making good power in any combustion engine, but especially forced induction engines and causes the PCM to start limiting throttle and timing to keep things running safe (within max load, which is dependent on many variables). Max load is defined as the maximum amount of power the engine can make without damaging itself. As it comes from the factory, the max load drops at higher ambient and after a few gears.

If the outlet temps were under 150F all the way through 3rd or even 4th gear, we would see mustang EB's making consistent mid to high 13's on the 1/4 mile bone stock (depending on weather you have an Auto or if your a good driver with a 6MT) other than tires (lets face it, high 13's are probably impossible or near impossible with all seasons, so hence why I mentioned tires).

Phew, that was a lot, but it's well documented and I have a tendency to dig deep to fully understand the issues, it's just part of being a good engineer.

VM Performance Graphs of the Factory IC: http://www.vmpperformance.com/Levels-Intercooler-Upgrade-for-EcoBoos-p/lv-ebint.htm

FFTEC Torture Test: https://www.fftec.com/article/178/FFTEC_Torture_Test_OEM_Garrett_and_Private_Label_Cores.html

ATP Turbo - Mustang Ecoboost Test Data: http://www.atpturbo.com/platform/MustangEcoboost.html

Documented Case of 2.3L EB Design Process and Detuning according to a previous Ford employeeL http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56367&highlight=Sandbag

Mustang Ecoboost getting slower: http://www.motortrend.com/news/ecoboost-mustangs-getting-slower/

There's more out there than what I've given, but I think that's a fairly thorough set of documented cases highlighting the deficiencies of the factory IC, even for spirited driving with an otherwise bone stock car.

There are 3 things I would suggest you do immediately.

1. Upgrade the IC, use the largest and most efficient IC you can find. There are some good drop in replacements (aka they fit into the same area as the factory IC), however they are a far cry from the larger front performance types. ATM, Full Race, FFTEC, Levels and others of that design will give you the best cooling under the most severe conditions and leave the most headroom for future power upgrades such as a PCM tune, downpipe and turbo. This is almost MANDATORY, like a recall you have to pay for if you want to push the car to any real degree even stock, especially if you live in a hot environment.

2. Oil Catch can, this is a long term reliability upgrade and will keep the IC and intake tract free of oil and carbon blowby from the PCV valve. Yes it is an issue, even in my old 2007 Focus ST with a duratec 23, after 125k miles I had to replace the intake manifold and it was CAKED with carbon and oil residue, very poor surface for air to flow against, turbo engines exacerbate the issue as they run hotter and have generate higher crank case pressures.

3. Clutch pedal asist spring. Steeda is the only one I know of at this point that makes a replacement spring. 35lbs (steeda) vs stock 185lbs. For me the stock clutch is very numb. Been driving stick for 10 years, but I stalled the EB just getting out of the deals lot! After a 1k miles I got better, but it still was a far car from being efficient. So I removed the spring and drove it without the assist spring for a while, much better feedback, but I wanted to make sure the pedal was returning all the way out so the steeda spring solved that issue while preserving the excellent feedback of no spring.

Those three changes are about $750 to $900 total depending on the IC you choose and are very well worth it to really tap into the potential of the mustang EB that's already there. Once you have those done, then I would consider tunes, springs, swaybars, tires and other enhancements that are more track specific. The three items I listed however make the car much more fun and efficient to drive as a daily driver, but more importantly, you can do it repeatedly and achieve good results despite ambient temp or how many gears your already run WOT through.

If Ford would have done those three things from the factory the stock EB would have been quite a bit ahead of its competition at it's price point and as it came from the factory. But the good news is, a base EB is about as cheap as you can get in it's performance category, which leaves you spare cash to do these things yourself with moderate effort to really bring out the potential. I suppose most of us buy the EB because of it's potential, not because it's such a great car stock.

Sponsored