Any guess on how long the horsepower wars are going to last?

[elfiero]

" Most of our damn trucks and SUVs still get 30 hwy mpg which is unheard of 10-15 years ago"

Really? where do you get this misinformation? My 1 year old F150 5.0L(bone stock, BTW) averages about 13.8 MPGs all summer, and about 12 MPGs all winter. I knew it before I bought it, and I couldn't care less. That BS about 30 MPGs(real world) for a full sized truck or SUV is nothing but fantasy at this point.

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[Hashbrownn]

HP will turn into KW in next 10-20 years.

 

[Dary]

HP will turn into KW in next 10-20 years.

HP = 745.7 W but I got what you mean


I hope the war is focused more on weight and materials.

 

[arghx7]

" Most of our damn trucks and SUVs still get 30 hwy mpg which is unheard of 10-15 years ago"

Really? where do you get this misinformation? My 1 year old F150 5.0L(bone stock, BTW) averages about 13.8 MPGs all summer, and about 12 MPGs all winter. I knew it before I bought it, and I couldn't care less. That BS about 30 MPGs(real world) for a full sized truck or SUV is nothing but fantasy at this point.

That fuel economy can go way up if the torque curve dropped significantly. Once the engine goes into enrichment for heavy loads the fuel economy drops significantly. So, the manufacturer limit the torque curve to what's possible without enrichment. You end up with an engine like the Audi 1.8T currently in Europe. It makes good low end torque but less than 200 horsepower, but it runs at Lambda=1 at almost all times.

The various regulatory agencies have also been talking about regulating "real world driving emissions" rather than just the chassis dyno cycles they do now. If we get a tight enough "real world" CO emission standard, then you can't enrich for more torque and power. Then your output goes way down just like what happened in the 70s.

Another option is higher grade fuel in the market. We're hitting the limits of what can be done on current pump fuels, especially in the US, without having to enrich for knock spark retard and catalyst thermal protection.

TL;DR if the right emission standards tighten, stock tunes will have to run way leaner and power will have to go down because knock, unless we raise the pump fuel octane.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Quick question to the older folks who've lived through the 70's and up? Am I right to speculate that this feels like a redux or no, like this scenario played out like this in a way

 

[Fox9350]

Does anyone else think that the auto industry is starting to reach its limit on how fast cars can go ?
I mean 0-60 times are 2.9 and 3 seconds for some of these super cars... Imagine when they hit 0-60 in a second ? I just think cars are bound to take a leap to I don't know what in the next 10-20 years.

Hey... Maybe I'm just crazy. :shrug:

that was gonna be my point, how much higher can the HP go? We've already seen 600 and 700 HP editions of the Mustang and Challenger, and at this point I don't really care if they go higher or not. I'm as excited for this 500+ HP GT350 as I am about the 650+ HP GT500. so aside from the govt stuff I think the HP levels are kinda maxed out as is in terms of practicality and the companies will focus on improving other aspects. Weight, traction, handling, etc.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Definitely weight for the challenger, that thing needs to go on Atkins or Paleo

 

[10splaya22]

As you said, that's one month of Mustang sales in North America. Hell, December 2014 alone there was nearly 37,300 VW Golfs sold in Europe. Tesla wants to be a mainstream premium electric car manufacturer, and 10k cars in 3 months is pretty poor by mainstream standards. Sure, its beats luxury brands like Jaguar and Maserati, but Mainstream brands like Mercedes and BMW sneeze more cars out every few weeks.

Yes thats because they are producing all the cars they can at their current size. They have only been around 12 years and been making cars for 8. Compared to Ford, BMW, Mercedes, etc. who have each been around for 90-100+ years they are doing pretty well. Also consider how new the technology is and also the waiting list to get a vehicle from Tesla.

 

[Trackaholic]

Quick question to the older folks who've lived through the 70's and up? Am I right to speculate that this feels like a redux or no, like this scenario played out like this in a way

I don't think this is at all like the late 70's.

At that time, restrictions were put in place without a good technical understanding of the solutions. We ended up with cars making very little power.

These days, there are still extreme hurdles that need to be met in order to reach the proposed EPA guidelines. However, I think there is better understanding of the difficulty in reaching those, potential solutions and their cost, and what the customer is willing to bear. Anything that poses a drastic threat to the economy will likely loose its teeth.

So, I don't see power levels taking a plunge like they did in the past. I do see changes to how power is made, and I see MFR's really working to improve the dynamic range of the power systems. By that I mean improving the ability to make peak power when called for, while remaining efficient when under low load.

So, you see things like smaller turbo engines, that make good power and torque when under boost, but which can cruise and idle with the efficiency of a small, non-boosted engine. You'll see the annoying start/stop "feature" becoming more and more prevalent. Of course we have increases in gear ratios, although I think we are rapidly hitting diminishing returns there. Maybe as engines get smaller we'll see even more increases in the number of ratios, but I can't imagine much more than a 10 speed. Not sure the spread on a CVT, but there may be some advancements there (as long as customers are willing to accept the way they function).

Eventually electric motors will be the prime motivator in all cars. They have an excellent torque curve, are almost instant in their responsiveness, have the capability to recover energy during braking, and don't waste energy when not moving. Would be nice to see them coupled with a small diesel generator for added range, but who knows where battery tech will take us. Maybe a range extender won't be necessary by the time electric cars are mainstream.

I suspect that eventually cars will be powered by four electric motors (one at each wheel), that will allow seamless traction control, stability control, and torque vectoring. It will also reduce mechanical complexity and packaging constraints by eliminating drivetrains, exhaust systems, much of the cooling systems (some will still be required for batteries and possibly motors) . Some gearing will likely be required, so I could also see a version using fewer motors and keeping differentials.

For the Mustang in the short term, I think a change to an EB6 is inevitable. I think it will happen the same way as it is happening in the F150, and how it is happening for the Mustang V6. Maybe in the next generation Mustang, Ford will offer the V8 and the EB6. Eventually almost everyone will go for the EB6 and Ford will simply stop offering the V8. Maybe that won't happen (and as a naturally aspirated enthusiast I hope it doesn't), but it seems likely based on the experience with the trucks.

Really looking forward to some weight reduction though. I hope that happens sooner rather than later.

-T

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