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[Ambient Thermal Management]

Alright guys, we'll come up with a solution to recirculate Will most likely be an adapter for our charge pipe and a hose to connect to the factory plumbing.

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[Spykexx]

Got it installed! It's massive!

 

[Redcruzer]

Nice! Report back in a week with a review!

 

[solodogg]

but but but...you didn't really need that...

:lol:

 

[TheLion]

Looks like powder coating will pay dividends over the life of the car in corrosion protection. Salt is not kind to bare aluminum! I see a bunch of oxidation on the top of the bottom half.

 

[Spykexx]

Looks like powder coating will pay dividends over the life of the car in corrosion protection. Salt is not kind to bare aluminum! I see a bunch of oxidation on the top of the bottom half.

I'm thinking the same thing. It wasn't TOO badly corroded, you can tell it's seen some salt, but a coating would really help extend it's life.

From initial testing this morning driving to work, it hasn't affected the performance of it! It was warmer this morning by about 15 degrees over my last huge testing of the stock intercooler and this one stayed at roughly 40 degrees delta. It was 80 degrees. Cruising on the interstate showed about 87/90 degrees fluctuating but with 0 boost. City cruising seen about 91 average.

But the real magic is when you ever so slightly push down the gas, it drops like a brick. The HIGHEST delta I seen during a pull this morning was 6 degrees over ambient. Granted this is a small collection of data points, about 4 pulls, so 12 or so gears. But the entire pull the intercooler continues to drop temperature. you'd NEVER see that on the stock. Best part is on the one mile stretch up to my works driveway...Still had every ounce of power it had when I started it up this morning. Something I could never say on the stock.

*side note...Installation of this behemoth absolutely sucked lol. Do not do it at night.

 

[TheLion]

I'm thinking the same thing. It wasn't TOO badly corroded, you can tell it's seen some salt, but a coating would really help extend it's life.

From initial testing this morning driving to work, it hasn't affected the performance of it! It was warmer this morning by about 15 degrees over my last huge testing of the stock intercooler and this one stayed at roughly 40 degrees delta. It was 80 degrees. Cruising on the interstate showed about 87/90 degrees fluctuating but with 0 boost. City cruising seen about 91 average.

But the real magic is when you ever so slightly push down the gas, it drops like a brick. The HIGHEST delta I seen during a pull this morning was 6 degrees over ambient. Granted this is a small collection of data points, about 4 pulls, so 12 or so gears. But the entire pull the intercooler continues to drop temperature. you'd NEVER see that on the stock. Best part is on the one mile stretch up to my works driveway...Still had every ounce of power it had when I started it up this morning. Something I could never say on the stock.

*side note...Installation of this behemoth absolutely sucked lol. Do not do it at night.

Those are good results. I wouldn't worry about charge temps while cruising under vacuum. When there's no boost there's very little thermal transfer because the air density is so low.

Air to Air exchanger's only really work when the fluid density is high as there's a much higher concentration of air molecules that are able to touch the aluminum and conduct heat to the cooler ambient air.

That's why you see high temps while cruising even in the highway compared to WOT. I doubt I"ll see a huge difference between the already good Levels Gen 3 20x14x3.5 which is pretty big, however I'm expecting to see about a 10F drop over the Levels based on what your seeing and what was logged in that 2-3-4 gear pull they show on their site.

I'm thinking flow at high RPM will be a little better too, may pick up a few HP on the top end. I'm thinking the combination of the Ford Performance Calibration and this inter cooler will be an amazing factory like setup (as in warranty safe because of the FP calibration). The way to make the car faster (than just what the tune offers itself) with the FP Calibration are the more traditional changes such as efficiency modifications like lowering the vehicle weight, gearing, ram air ducting, better cooling, better human inter face, better tires etc instead of just trying to get more power out of the engine (hence why a fair amount of the shop tuned cars have grenaded on customers).

If you pop and engine, you should just bought a GT from the get go because a replacement 2.3T is the cost difference between the EB and GT...

 

[Spykexx]

Those are good results. I wouldn't worry about charge temps while cruising under vacuum. When there's no boost there's very little thermal transfer because the air density is so low.

Air to Air exchanger's only really work when the fluid density is high as there's a much higher concentration of air molecules that are able to touch the aluminum and conduct heat to the cooler ambient air.

That's why you see high temps while cruising even in the highway compared to WOT. I doubt I"ll see a huge difference between the already good Levels Gen 3 20x14x3.5 which is pretty big, however I'm expecting to see about a 10F drop over the Levels based on what your seeing and what was logged in that 2-3-4 gear pull they show on their site.

I'm thinking flow at high RPM will be a little better too, may pick up a few HP on the top end. I'm thinking the combination of the Ford Performance Calibration and this inter cooler will be an amazing factory like setup (as in warranty safe because of the FP calibration). The way to make the car faster (than just what the tune offers itself) with the FP Calibration are the more traditional changes such as efficiency modifications like lowering the vehicle weight, gearing, ram air ducting, better cooling, better human inter face, better tires etc instead of just trying to get more power out of the engine (hence why a fair amount of the shop tuned cars have grenaded on customers).

If you pop and engine, you should just bought a GT from the get go because a replacement 2.3T is the cost difference between the EB and GT...

Not worried about cruising temps in the slightest. Not sure where I actually got that delta number from. Delta while cruising was about 15-20.

 

[EcoBOSS]

This can use the factory charge pipes without an adapter?
Or other (hard) charge pipes that use the stock FMIC connections?
How does this compare to the Wagner EVO1 or EVO2?
I'm in "Swampass" TX and need MAX cooling - it was a heat index of 108*F at the track yesterday!

 

[Spykexx]

This can use the factory charge pipes without an adapter?
Or other (hard) charge pipes that use the stock FMIC connections?
How does this compare to the Wagner EVO1 or EVO2?
I'm in "Swampass" TX and need MAX cooling - it was a heat index of 108*F at the track yesterday!

100% fit stock pipes. Just did the install on Wednesday.

It's going to far surpass the Evo1 in terms of cooling. The evo1 is a street setup.

I'd say the evo2 will be comparable...but the ATM seems to perform better. The ATM with it's stepped intercooler I believe has more volume. ATM intercooler for the mustang is known to be in the very top of it's class.

Here's an excerpt from adam about wagner vs ATM
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1505861&postcount=14

You aren't going to find much better brother! Especially at this price point! We were at 99* yesterday and mine stayed between 108-115 cruising.

 

[TheLion]

This can use the factory charge pipes without an adapter?
Or other (hard) charge pipes that use the stock FMIC connections?
How does this compare to the Wagner EVO1 or EVO2?
I'm in "Swampass" TX and need MAX cooling - it was a heat index of 108*F at the track yesterday!

Yes you can use the factory charge pipes. Honestly I think the primary reason to replace the charge pipes is for reliability, especially if your running an aftermarket tune, including the FP Calibration as I've hit up to 25 psi on the FP Calibration.

That's why I replaced my charge pipes, because I had them loosen up on me twice in six months during the winter when the stock rubber couplers and plastic tubes shrink at different ratios, they become leaky where aftermarket silicone couplers or high end woven rubber couplers combined with aluminum or silicone charge pipes tend to be more temperature stable and stay clamped tight regardless of hot or cold.

AEM's dyno showed a bit of a gain in power, about 7 HP around 5500 RPM most likely due to the slightly more graduated bend radius coming out of the compressor outlet. Air flow doesn't like sharp turns or you incur pressure loss.

If I did it again I'd go with ATM's silicone charge pipes IF they made it with a re-circulation option or Mishimoto's as they use t-bolt clamps and silicone couplers.

The AEM's aren't bad, they work just fine, but their fitment wasn't quite as good as I would have expected and the Mishimoto's / CP-e's have an even more gradual bend radius. Any of those 3 I would recommend. I think the silicone provides the best seal where AEM uses a high end rubber (like a tire rubber compound). They are better than stock, but not as easy to work with as silicone.

A good CAI and charge pipes will make a difference in response, especially when tuned as well as add a little power. All engines like to breathe, regardless of FI or NA. There are gains when tuned with a high flow intake, you simply can't pull as much air through the stock panel filter as you can through a large conical filter nor can you push as much air through a sharp bend radius as you can through a graduated radius.

All these things add up to minor inefficiencies when combined open up response and add a little power / torque.

Regarding the inter cooler, I'd go with a full sized unit given your in such a hot climate. The stage 1 units might not be adequate for track use at high temps, I think there was a user on this forum that also lives in Texas that had just that issue with his Mishimoto stage 1 inter cooler so he upgraded to a Levels Race inter cooler.

The ATM is supposedly one of the most efficient units out there, but I don't know how well it compares to the Evo 2. I think it would do quite a bit better than the Evo 1 due to the following design differences:

1. Evo 1 is tube and fin where the ATM is bar and plate
2. Evo 1 features 12 rows where the ATM has 21 rows
3. Evo 1 uses standard flat faced tubes where the ATM uses their proprietary rounded bar design that allows 15% better air flow (acts like a velocity stack, it's that whole air not liking 90 degree turns thing again).

By the way, the ATM uses the rounded bars inside the core as well, it's not just in the front where the ambient air is flowing through the fins, so the charge air is also seeing the benefits of the velocity stack internally. If you have an ATM, before you put it on, take a peek down inside the inlet or outlet and you will see the rounded bar design internally as well. This will lower the pressure drop a bit without sacrificing cooling capacity.

I'd bet the ATM's pressure drop is at least as low as the Wagner's but with much better cooling. The Evo 2 is massive though, so they may be on par but the price difference is over $300 as the Evo 2 is about $1k.

Here's the charge temp performance for the Evo 1 (not that impressive, in part due to it's smaller size and tube and fin architecture, that's only a single run): http://www.*******************/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/4-EcoBoost-Mustang-Intercooler.jpg

Here's the ATM after gears back to back (2-3-4): https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1815/6377/files/image.jpg1_zpsgodefkqw_ec6cfa3f-678a-4f72-bd62-97478a80f5d0.jpg?12936532996250749976

 

[Spykexx]

Yes you can use the factory charge pipes. Honestly I think the primary reason to replace the charge pipes is for reliability, especially if your running an aftermarket tune, including the FP Calibration as I've hit up to 25 psi on the FP Calibration.

That's why I replaced my charge pipes, because I had them loosen up on me twice in six months during the winter when the stock rubber couplers and plastic tubes shrink at different ratios, they become leaky where aftermarket silicone couplers or high end woven rubber couplers combined with aluminum or silicone charge pipes tend to be more temperature stable and stay clamped tight regardless of hot or cold.

AEM's dyno showed a bit of a gain in power, about 7 HP around 5500 RPM most likely due to the slightly more graduated bend radius coming out of the compressor outlet. Air flow doesn't like sharp turns or you incur pressure loss.

If I did it again I'd go with ATM's silicone charge pipes IF they made it with a re-circulation option or Mishimoto's as they use t-bolt clamps and silicone couplers.

The AEM's aren't bad, they work just fine, but their fitment wasn't quite as good as I would have expected and the Mishimoto's / CP-e's have an even more gradual bend radius. Any of those 3 I would recommend. I think the silicone provides the best seal where AEM uses a high end rubber (like a tire rubber compound). They are better than stock, but not as easy to work with as silicone.

A good CAI and charge pipes will make a difference in response, especially when tuned as well as add a little power. All engines like to breathe, regardless of FI or NA. There are gains when tuned with a high flow intake, you simply can't pull as much air through the stock panel filter as you can through a large conical filter nor can you push as much air through a sharp bend radius as you can through a graduated radius.

All these things add up to minor inefficiencies when combined open up response and add a little power / torque.

Adam would disagree. He's tested numerous CAI's and still to this day says stock airbox will give you the most power. He actually did a live feed of testing all of them.

 

[TheLion]

Adam would disagree. He's tested numerous CAI's and still to this day says stock airbox will give you the most power. He actually did a live feed of testing all of them.

He also has blown customer engines...but of course he must know more than an entire team of Ford and Ford Performance engineers with 20+ years experience...

He tested fender well CAI on a dyno,...you couldn't ask for a worse combination for sucking up hot air and having low flow. Right there the results were skewed because his testing method used a setup that was designed to function at speed.

I can guarantee you the UPR car isn't running the stock air box either and they are now down to 9.84 on the 1/4 mile. They use a JLT cold air intake. Ford Performance ran a 12.5 on their tune on pump gas with their CAI on a fully warrantied tune...So I'm going to trust that the fastest ecoboost out there (by a wide margin) knows it works and is an advantage. Plus there is testing from several other vendors, multiple, that do show gains. He's the only one...

Not trying to start a flame war here, but not everything that man says is true and he doesn't know it all, neither is all of his testing valid because there were things that simply weren't considered that affected the results, consequently erroneous conclusions were drawn. Garbage in, garbage out. That needs to be cleared up as I've heard it repeated multiple times. Limited air flow is the very reason ATM requested any testing on their inter coolers be done AT SPEED and not solely on a dyno.

Dyno's are a rough approximation and can show the effects of changes in timing, fueling etc. to a degree, but they have limits and have poor air flow and even limited loading of the engine, so they don't really give us the best results in how cooling systems impact real performance in real world driving conditions. There are some really good engine dynos that are inclimactic chambers used by OE's and Ford Performance to test over altitude, temp, humidity, thermal shock etc., but even those engines are then tested in the real world locations.

All these factors drastically affect cooling performance, air flow to intakes etc. You simply cannot pass as much air through the panel filter as you can a large conical filter. Nor can you flow nearly as much air through the Inter Cooler and Radiator on a dyno unless it's in a wind tunnell...something no shop has (only a large multi-billion dollar company like Ford or someone who has access to it like Ford Performance). The fact that people have gained 1 mph trap by using an oiled cotton filter which flows more air than the paper panel filter in the stock air box proves that very concept. A conical filter, even of the same media type, will have a lower restriction than a panel type.

However air temp also affects power. The cooler the air going into the compressor inlet, the more efficiently the turbo will operate as it has a higher density air to compress. People erroneously assume intake air temps don't matter in a turbo car, but they do.

The turbo isn't magic and air density (determined by altitude and temperature) affects compressor efficiency and hence maximum power output of the engine...the harder the compressor has to work the more back pressure the exhaust sees and lower the power output of the engine. Can't get around that.

 

[TheLion]

These guys must ALL be wrong...:
http://www.atpturbo.com/platform/MustangEcoboost.html

https://www.*******************/forums/threads/steeda-ecoboost-mustang-cai-install.1106760/

https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/mustang-ecoboost-dyno-data

https://www.steeda.com/steeda-proflow-ecoboost-mustang-cold-air-intake-2015-ecoboost-555-3199.html

 

[Spykexx]

These guys must ALL be wrong...:
http://www.atpturbo.com/platform/MustangEcoboost.html

https://www.*******************/forums/threads/steeda-ecoboost-mustang-cai-install.1106760/

https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/mustang-ecoboost-dyno-data

https://www.steeda.com/steeda-proflow-ecoboost-mustang-cold-air-intake-2015-ecoboost-555-3199.html

You're right. Why would companies SELLING intakes say their product is inferior. A little biased huh? Atleast those intake supercharger fans work because their company says they do!

And stock motors are blowing too. Damn ford must not know a damn thing either! Crazy!

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