2018 Performance Pack - A big step BACKWARDS

[SeaStang]

You dont charge more for incremental gains like this. Ford played this all wrong, or they purposely want to sell less V8s. Cars always increase in capability, but price generally stays the same for a model adjusted for inflation. This is a wholesale ripoff for GT buyers. Not only is the base thousands more expensive, they jacked up the price of nearly every option people want. Im a little stunned, how did 45K minimum well optioned become the standard for a Mustang? Theyve given up the entire segment that used to buy Mustangs. Younger guys, a sports car that was affordable etc. I mean even if you financed it for 72 months, youre talking 700-900 monthly payments. In an era where wages have been basically stagnant. I mean I would put this car now 3/4 of the way to the old Corvette demographic. Middle aged guys.

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[Nanashii]

PP2 will have Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires

Any info if there will be an option to pair the PP2 with the PS4S tires instead of the Cup 2s?

 

[Pablo GT350]

PP2 will have Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires

Really? I'll be shocked if that's the case. What about diff and tranny coolers? And also be mrsp'd around $44500 like 1LE? If so I'm in.

 

[Cardude99]

Any info if there will be an option to pair the PP2 with the PS4S tires instead of the Cup 2s?

Doubt it, I'm guessing, purely speculation, the pp2 will be a track monster that will likely compete with the 1le. Probably be on sale first quarter 2018 and likely will coinside with an early shut down of gt350 production as I suspect that 2018 will be the last year of the gt350 and possible a short run compared to 16 and 17.

Again just my theory as that is what would make sense to me.

 

[Cardude99]

Really? I'll be shocked if that's the case. What about diff and tranny coolers? And also be mrsp'd around $44500 like 1LE? If so I'm in.

If the pp2 is able to compete with the 1le then I would be okay with the Mustang bring a little more expensive. Looks better, can see out of it, and less short comings compared to the camaro.

 

[Spart]

If the pp2 is able to compete with the 1le then I would be okay with the Mustang bring a little more expensive. Looks better, can see out of it, and less short comings compared to the camaro.

I agree, but if I were a betting man, I'd bet on the GT PP Level 2 Mustang being slower and more expensive than the Camaro SS 1LE at this rate.

I see it as equally likely that Ford will either produce the GT350 throughout the 2018 MY, or extend GT350 production into 2019. And they're not going to want to cannibalize sales of the GT350 with a GT that's nipping at it's heels.

So that means the GT PP Level 2 won't be as good as they can make it. Which it will need to be if it's going to be a threat to a 1LE on a track with only 460HP on tap.

Base GT with PP Level 1 (as I guess it will be come to be known?) MagneRide, and 301A (which you *have* to select when doing MagneRide) is already at $43,685. I would bet on PP Level 2, with all associated required packages (probably 301A) coming in 2-5k above that. So the SS 1LE is almost certainly going to win on price, since it's less than 1k more than the GT PP w/MagneRide at this point ($44,400 for the 1SS 1LE.)

TL;DR: Ford is trying to sell as many Camaros as they can for the 2018 model year. :frusty:

 

[Pablo GT350]

I agree, but if I were a betting man, I'd bet on the GT PP Level 2 Mustang being slower and more expensive than the Camaro SS 1LE at this rate.

If the prices we are seeing now are true, I don't see how you can't be right on in your prediction.

 

[wildcatgoal]

The Camaro SS 1LE is an incredible car... I want one, to be honest. They do well OUT OF THE BOX. The Mustang GT PP needed a truckload of Steeda parts to be a proper sports car (to me). Now it's great (except no coolers!)... but damn... that 1LE scoots.

 

[TomcatDriver]

For me the jump in price is $1500+ over what my 16 GT PP optioned for. Don't like the wing... the rubber is a sweet upgrade. Back in 16, I considered $2450 for the PP a great deal, and it was a big reason I went Mustang over the competition. With the base price and PP price increases, that incentive has been wiped clean.

Oh yea, almost forgot about the wing. That explains the extra $1000. Totally worth it. (/sarcasm)

 

[Cardude99]

Agreed also. Add the wider forged wheels, cloth recaros and if rear brembos and active exhaust is part of the package I can see it being $48k+ maybe they'd add some coolers and make it an even $50k.

it will be interesting to see what it comes with, perhaps a power bump to make it competitive with the 1le, i have to imagine that they are benchmarking that, the m4, and maybe even the 911 s.

when you cross 50k and you are marketing it as a track package then you have some serious competition.

 

[Spart]

Ok for another 20-25 HP I'd probably pay $50k with all the other GT350 type equipment. I told my self if Ford made Mach 1 with 475 HP for $50k I'd buy it so maybe this PP2 was supposed to be our Mach 1/Bullit. One level above a GT but below a GT350.

That's the problem - Ford will have to make it 95% of a GT350R to best the SS 1LE. Do you think they'll do that while they're still selling the GT350?

Plus the price of the 2018 GT PP + MagneRide + 301A is within 1k of the SS 1LE. Do you think they'll make PP Level 2 as cheap as that? How would that make sense?

So logically, we're probably getting a more expensive and worse competitor to the SS 1LE.

I sure do love the direction Ford is going under the leadership of that guy who made his name making beige office furniture. :frusty:

 

[ALUSA]

That's the problem - Ford will have to make it 95% of a GT350R to best the SS 1LE. Do you think they'll do that while they're still selling the GT350?

Plus the price of the 2018 GT PP + MagneRide + 301A is within 1k of the SS 1LE. Do you think they'll make PP Level 2 as cheap as that? How would that make sense?

So logically, we're probably getting a more expensive and worse competitor to the SS 1LE.

I sure do love the direction Ford is going under the leadership of that guy who made his name making beige office furniture. :frusty:

Look if Chevy doesn't mind their Camaro's besting their flagship Corvette's, then Ford shouldn't have a problem at all. People will still buy the GT350's for their engine and the looks. End of story.

 

[Spart]

Look if Chevy doesn't mind their Camaro's besting their flagship Corvette's, then Ford shouldn't have a problem at all. People will still buy the GT350's for their engine and the looks. End of story.

A few things:

1. That's an entirely different model of car. Ford doesn't really have a car to match up with the Camaro/Corvette dynamic (the GT is in another league from the Corvette entirely) and neither GT350 can hang with the top trim C7 either. The GT350 like it or not is just another trim level of the same car and the sales demo is going to be more similar between the Mustang GT and GT350 than the one between the Camaro and Corvette. Honestly, the GT350 is more of a SS 1LE competitor than anything.
2. The C7 Z06 was put around the ring in 7:13.9 by a German magazine known for putting out conservative times whereas Chevy's own claim for the Camaro ZL1 1LE with their own pro driver at the wheel was a 7:16.04 lap. IIRC Chevy tested the C7 Z06 at the ring but wrecked the car and never tried to set an official time again. Watch the YouTube video of both laps, the magazine wasn't pushing the C7 Z06 nearly as hard as Chevy was pushing the ZL1 1LE.
3. The C7 ZR1 is coming and I'd bet you any amount of money it's going to put down a sub-7 ring time.
4. Ford still has to make a business case to sell two relatively low-volume high performance cars that are trending towards being identical to each other. There's no way a really strong PP Level 2 won't cannibalize sales of the GT350 from the track rat crowd.

 

[saf1]

A few things:

1. That's an entirely different model of car. Ford doesn't really have a car to match up with the Camaro/Corvette dynamic (the GT is in another league from the Corvette entirely) and neither GT350 can hang with the top trim C7 either. The GT350 like it or not is just another trim level of the same car and the sales demo is going to be more similar between the Mustang GT and GT350 than the one between the Camaro and Corvette. Honestly, the GT350 is more of a SS 1LE competitor than anything.
2. The C7 Z06 was put around the ring in 7:13.9 by a German magazine known for putting out conservative times whereas Chevy's own claim for the Camaro ZL1 1LE with their own pro driver at the wheel was a 7:16.04 lap. IIRC Chevy tested the C7 Z06 at the ring but wrecked the car and never tried to set an official time again. Watch the YouTube video of both laps, the magazine wasn't pushing the C7 Z06 nearly as hard as Chevy was pushing the ZL1 1LE.
3. The C7 ZR1 is coming and I'd bet you any amount of money it's going to put down a sub-7 ring time.
4. Ford still has to make a business case to sell two relatively low-volume high performance cars that are trending towards being identical to each other. There's no way a really strong PP Level 2 won't cannibalize sales of the GT350 from the track rat crowd.

Devils advocate here - does anyone really care about the ring times? Better yet, when was the last time you or someone you know bought a platform because of lap times derived from it?

 

[Spart]

Devils advocate here - does anyone really care about the ring times? Better yet, when was the last time you or someone you know bought a platform because of lap times derived from it?

Look at what I was quoting - that was in response to ALUSA's statement "if Chevy doesn't mind their Camaro's besting their flagship Corvette's" - which is demonstrably false.

I don't care about lap times, I care about the experience. Which is why I bought a Mustang over a Camaro, I drove them back to back.

But now that they're about the same price... I dunno. I may be in the minority on this, but I like the 6th gen Camaro's interior better for one. (5th gen was garbage inside but they've really cleaned up their act.)

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