2018 Performance Pack - A big step BACKWARDS

[BmacIL]

:lol::lol:

You got 12K miles out of them. That's actually pretty good for Summer Only HP tires. It's funny when someone buys Summer Only HP tires, and then complains about their short life-span.

When the 2011 car with the BPP came out, the Pirellis lasted about 8K miles. They're M.O. tires, and Pirelli got tired of the complaints from Mercedes and Mustang owners and changed the compound so the tires lasted longer.

It's not that good when tires with comparable or better grip last twice as long.

P-zeros are notoriously bad for wear and don't have many virtues that make them a tire people choose. I would not expect to get 20-25k+ miles out of RE-71Rs for instance, but I would expect that out of a street summer tire, particularly when you can get that from MPSS and similar others.

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[BmacIL]

So if with the PP, Magneride, etc and all options at $52,000k and it beats a Camaro SS 1LE around the track by over a second how would that be a step back exactly other than maybe being not as good value wise?

Because that's impossible.

 

[actionjackson83]

Because that's impossible.

Guess we'll see then when the reviews come out....

 

[millhouse]

:lol::lol:

You got 12K miles out of them. That's actually pretty good for Summer Only HP tires. It's funny when someone buys Summer Only HP tires, and then complains about their short life-span.

When the 2011 car with the BPP came out, the Pirellis lasted about 8K miles. They're M.O. tires, and Pirelli got tired of the complaints from Mercedes and Mustang owners and changed the compound so the tires lasted longer.

Considering my Nitto drag radials back in the day lasted 15k miles....I would consider 12k miles absolutely shitty for a summer tire.

It's not that good when tires with comparable or better grip last twice as long.

P-zeros are notoriously bad for wear and don't have many virtues that make them a tire people choose. I would not expect to get 20-25k+ miles out of RE-71Rs for instance, but I would expect that out of a street summer tire, particularly when you can get that from MPSS and similar others.

Exactly. My Firestone Indy 500 tires have better grip than the Pirellis and offer a 340 tread wear rating.

20-25k miles out of a summer tire is what one should expect out of a non abused, daily driver summer tire.

 

[TomcatDriver]

A step backwards?

Some of the '17's Performance Pack is now standard. This is how a model progresses.

So far, the Mustang is the cheapest and best option on the market. If you can suffer the Camaro's styling, quality and higher MSRP, it is an option. As far as real Racing goes, anything with a Full Size wheelbase is pretty much fubar. The '16-'17 SS required an output advantage in order to be successful in racing.

For a mass production vehicle, you get Corvette power for Mustang money. Even the Camaro historically doesn't match the Corvette.

First time in HISTORY a Mustang GT has the same output while only weighing 250lbs more than the C7. I don't see how the massive leaps in progression is backwards.

A base 2018 GT with its extra power could be just as fast as the outgoing GTPP. In fact, that is very likely. If EVERYONE optioned a Performance Pack or a Premium '17 anyway, why not make yesterdays options standard? An '18 GTPP1 or GTPP2 are faster cars.

This makes the $4000 price (really 6000 with 301A) make even less sense. If the 18 base is basically a 17 PP, what are we getting for the extra $4K other than tires? Again, the parts bin difference between the two can't be more than a few hundred bucks. Unless there is some magic sauce that has not been revealed yet, it doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[BmacIL]

Guess we'll see then when the reviews come out....

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=physics

 

[kz]

Guess we'll see then when the reviews come out....

Are you aware of at least tire width difference ? Or know what it really translates to ?

Obviously not, because you wouldn't be writing this...

 

[BmacIL]

This makes the $4000 price (really 6000 with 301A) make even less sense. If the 18 base is basically a 17 PP, what are we getting for the extra $4K other than tires? Again, the parts bin difference between the two can't be more than a few hundred bucks. Unless there is some magic sauce that has not been revealed yet, it doesn't seem to make sense.

Brembos, Torsen diff, radiator, chassis bracing, wheels and tires.

 

[Grintch]

You can get a 1SS 1LE for $44,400. Still has leather/alcantara recaros and most of the whiz-bang tech. Problem is: must go GT premium to get Recaros.

Plus the 1LE has a heads up display, a better manual tyranny, track ready transmission & differential coolers, Brembo REAR brakes, and much wider wheels & tires.

 

[Grintch]

Brembos, Torsen diff, radiator, chassis bracing, wheels and tires.

Exactly what we got last year for $1000 less.

 

[millhouse]

Exactly what we got last year for $1000 less.

And 2 years ago for $1500 less. ;)

 

[Norm Peterson]

Are you aware of at least tire width difference ? Or know what it really translates to ?

Maybe this will help (it's from a real automotive engineer with decades of job experience)

Some curious bacteria has invaded my desk and eaten EVERY book on tires and handling.

Hmm, well I found one.

It says, ultimate grip is proportional to tire width ^0.15, which sounds a bit low to me. So going from a 200 to a 300 mm width tire gives you about 6% more latacc. But you can soften the compound a bit and get some more.

The cornering stiffness also increases. This is a good thing for a race car as it means you'll get less cornering drag. CS is proportional to tire width^.3, that is you'll get 12% more lateral force for a given slip angle, going from a 200 to a 300. Again compound has an effect.

Norm

 

[TomcatDriver]

And 2 years ago for $1500 less. ;)

So, accounting for inflation of around 1.8% the price increase should be about $55. So unless there is some unknown factor at work, the price jump is ~18X inflation for essentially the same thing.

You can at least make the argument that the jump in base price is largely attributable to the revised engine (although this to is way out of line with inflation) but unless there is something unknown, what justifies the 33% price jump in the PP?

 

[Rocketman]

Guess we'll see then when the reviews come out....

A GT PP can't even beat a 2SS around the track, what makes you think it will be able to take on a 1LE?

 

[Lucky13Cat]

Maybe this will help (it's from a real automotive engineer with decades of job experience)




Norm

Well yeah Norm but............;)

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