2017 CHEVROLET CAMARO ZL1 VS. 2017 FORD MUSTANG SHELBY GT350R: THE FOREVER WAR

[JT1]

Not impressive enough to compete with the big wigs or manufacturer times,
and I have yet to have a completely clean lap, (I'm not paying a couple of grand euro to have the track all to myself for 1 lap)
on my best ever lap I had this happen at Brunchen

I also had a passenger on that run which was a good 180 lbs of extra weight. Here he is hanging on for dear life lol

That and I also don't have the video currently available for proof anyways so I'm not going to put up a number with no way to defend it.

The R33 posted the first Sub 8 minute Ring time for a production car way back in '95 so if we take the ZL-1s ring time as gospel that's the only number we should be looking at right?

Props for getting out there and doing it.

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[Minn19]

Can someone please give some love to the Camaro :shrug:
"So if Ring times don’t mean much for the overall excellence of a production car, what’s the point in setting a time? Well, there is no point — except for marketing. Which leads to my next complaint about the times: virtually all of them are set by ringer cars. This goes double, triple, and quadruple for forced-induction cars. Given the ease with which some mook in a California strip mall can liberate an extra 200 hp from a supercharged or turbocharged V-8..."

BUT gotta love that NA V8 Mr. :ford: :hail:

I think these are two separate topics. I and others have given the ZL1 love as it is a beast of a car.

But, the 'Ring times etc are meaningless for the reasons discussed. Fun to talk about, but not worth much else.

 

[Caballus]

Not to bring back a dead horse, but Jack Baruth over on TTAC has some commentary on the ZL1-1LE Ring time:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...ing-aint-got-actually-dont-mean-thing-period/

Great article and so true. I don't agree with the point about traffic, however. Usually when tests are done on cars like these, they're not done on a Tourist Driving Day, so the traffic isn't a factor. Still an awesome article. As for speed, I posted this before, but couldn't resist reposting. It's on the open Autobahn in a 100% stock vehicle. Two nights later, max was 204. Point = if you want to test raw flat speed (minus track handling) the Autobahn is a better place to do it than the Ring.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Correct. As I have stated before, it would take closer to 2 miles to come close to top speed. I was just stating it might be fun on a closed course and pay the fee and run it.

"Coming close" being the operative thought. You'd perhaps get within 3 mph in two miles, but those last 3 would take something like another whole mile.


Norm

 

[02gtnh]

Not to bring back a dead horse, but Jack Baruth over on TTAC has some commentary on the ZL1-1LE Ring time:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...ing-aint-got-actually-dont-mean-thing-period/

It's obvious from other articles that he doesn't like GM, but some could be true. But if your going to write such a article, get some facts in it or examples, not just what he thinks. That would pull a lot more weight. Just sounds like a guy who had one of his cars get beat and now is butt hurt.:cheers:

 

[Norm Peterson]

I just dislike "lap records", particularly at the Nurburgring as a standard of comparison.

And that's the difficulty in comparing road course capability.

Unlike drag racing where the distances are fixed and the "line" is perfectly straight and at least reasonably close to level, there are no officially defined road course configurations. And even if there were, Jack's point about optimization for the test venue

"Supposedly this Camaro is faster than a Ferrari Enzo around the Ring. Would you be willing to bet your home (for Gen Xers) or your retirement (for Boomers) or your iPhone (for Millennials) on it being true at Laguna Seca, with free choice of tires and plenty of setup time for both parties?"

would still be true. It'd be at least a NASCAR or F1 level nightmare to ensure that nothing special had ever been done to any car so "tested".


Norm

 

[AGGT350]

I think these are two separate topics. I and others have given the ZL1 love as it is a beast of a car.

But, the 'Ring times etc are meaningless for the reasons discussed. Fun to talk about, but not worth much else.

Your correct about the ring times and if i ran that same track, it would take me about a day to get around that monster.
Camaro = :love:
VUDU52= :love::love:
:cheers:

 

[mdmoore23]

It's obvious from other articles that he doesn't like GM, but some could be true. But if your going to write such a article, get some facts in it or examples, not just what he thinks. That would pull a lot more weight. Just sounds like a guy who had one of his cars get beat and now is butt hurt.:cheers:

My man is way over thinking the situation. It's his job so i get it. But Why can't people just allow it to be cool that GM takes its halo cars to a well known track, sets lap times, and post the videos on YouTube? The videos are cool as hell in my opinion. At the bare minimum, it allows insight into the progression of their cars. It's cool marketing. Why does it have to be any more than that?

 

[saf1]

So mind if I go back to this speed thing? I'm still struggling with its limited speed on that final leg. It reminds me a lot of the F-4 Phantom. That thing was a flying brick but at least it was able to hit North of Mach 2.5.

So let us say GM wants to give it another go and the stars line up with track conditions. If they want to beat that time what are they looking at to change? Gearing, automatic to remove driver distractions, and lesson downforce? I guess make the brick more aerodynamic?

Not trying to derail the thread but it looked to my unexperienced driver eyes that the car was already pushing its envelope. The cars has they appear statistically faster than this fella are lighter. Trying to see what their options would be. Also how the GT500 broke 200 - less downforce I'm guessing thus negating the brick.

 

[ElAntonius]

You know what I think is cooler? Real owner lap videos. GoPros. Being there.

Honestly the Boss Track Attack and the Gt350 Track Attack were worth a million hours of Ford sponsored in car video to me.

And someone on here posted their video of a Nurburgring hot lap. There's YouTube channels with actual owners at track days. That's far more interesting to me. (Note I'm not saying GM doesn't get this level of enthusiasm, i had a camaro.)

I'm just cynical about the marketing efforts of multi billion dollar corporations. Hell, i find the camaro gt4 vs mustang racing to be more interesting.

 

[mdmoore23]

So mind if I go back to this speed thing? I'm still struggling with its limited speed on that final leg. It reminds me a lot of the F-4 Phantom. That thing was a flying brick but at least it was able to hit North of Mach 2.5.

So let us say GM wants to give it another go and the stars line up with track conditions. If they want to beat that time what are they looking at to change? Gearing, automatic to remove driver distractions, and lesson downforce? I guess make the brick more aerodynamic?

Not trying to derail the thread but it looked to my unexperienced driver eyes that the car was already pushing its envelope. The cars has they appear statistically faster than this fella are lighter. Trying to see what their options would be. Also how the GT500 broke 200 - less downforce I'm guessing thus negating the brick.

This has been answered a few times. But, the added downforce is what's affecting the speed on the final straight. The regular ZL1 went over 180mph in the same spot. And to be clear the GT500 broke 200mph on a very long banked oval, not on the Nurburgring. There has never been any concert evidence of what it ran there.

 

[saf1]

This has been answered a few times. But, the added downforce is what's affecting the speed on the final straight. The regular ZL1 went over 180mph in the same spot. And to be clear the GT500 broke 200mph on a very long banked oval, not on the Nurburgring. There has never been any concert evidence of what it ran there.

Right - it was at the other ring in Italy, Nardo. So reduce downforce. That would then impact how it handles on the rest of the track?

So in theory that is about it for that car + or - a few tenths of a second?

 

[Minn19]

My man is way over thinking the situation. It's his job so i get it. But Why can't people just allow it to be cool that GM takes its halo cars to a well known track, sets lap times, and post the videos on YouTube? The videos are cool as hell in my opinion. At the bare minimum, it allows insight into the progression of their cars. It's cool marketing. Why does it have to be any more than that?

They are cool I'll give you that. But, I still like there to be some truth in said marketing.

Not a great analogy, but Lexus has been running a bunch of adds with their performance cars on tracks or hints at tracking them. But, if you take your Lexus to the track and they find out they try to automatically void your warranty. I hate shit like that.

 

[ElAntonius]

They are cool I'll give you that. But, I still like there to be some truth in said marketing.

I don't even care about the truth in it. It's cool, I just would never have it add weight to a care I'm thinking of purchasing.

 

[AirBusPilot]

This has been answered a few times. But, the added downforce is what's affecting the speed on the final straight. The regular ZL1 went over 180mph in the same spot. And to be clear the GT500 broke 200mph on a very long banked oval, not on the Nurburgring. There has never been any concert evidence of what it ran there.

Redline in 5th gear is in the low 170's mph. 6th gear slows it down.

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