So excited about the Performance Pack Level 2

I don't think you can really go wrong with either the PP2 or 1LE for track use. I don't know what your budget is, but also consider the GT350/R.

If you are looking for a daily driver then Premium PP1 or 2SS is the way to go.

Either way though you win. As cgocifer knows, the new Camaros are fuck all fast. They feel way faster than the current 15-17 GTs, which to be quite honest aren't really that fast. The '18 will be closing that gap though.

Wow, the wheels on the PP2 look like HREs. The wheels on the 1LE is 1ugLE! Sorry

Do we really need a new PP2 topic every day? It's always the same discussion.

@Cgocifer : You have a nice car, we all got it. But you are posting these pics like every day in another new topic. This is a Mustang forum, so maybe it's the wrong place to convince everybody to get the 1LE.

I love both cars, but I nobody can deny that the mustang is way more practical if you want to use the rear seats, the trunk or want a good visibility. Visibility is not as bad as some people say, it's not different than an Audi TT or Toyota GT86, but the Mustang is clearly better in that terms.

I'm also curious how first reviews of PP2 vs 1LE (vs M4) will turn out. But at this point we can just guess the results. What car each of us on his own prefers usally isn't just numbers. I'm a bit disappointed of the 18 looks, so even if it's the fastest on the market it's not sold by this alone. Otherwise the 16 SS would have been a huge hit right from the beginning

NDSP said:

I'd take a T2R over an eLSD every single day of the week. And so would anyone wishing for optimum performance on a road course. So you might leave that one out of the list of things the PP2 doesn't have. Because it has something way better.

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I'd encourage you to drive a car with a good eLSD on track to verify your opinion.

As an HPDE instructor, I get to drive a lot of cars on track. My track car was a Mustang GT, then I switched to a Corvette C7-Z51 with eLSD, and it was almost like cheating. The eLSD opens (turn in) and locks (accelerate out) exactly as needed. It is incredible really. I think Chevy got their calibration on eLSD exactly right, better than any others, and miles ahead of any mechanical LSD (Torsen or otherwise).

I think this discussion is awesome, since I just sold my Corvette and I am now trying to decide what my fun and track day car will be. The 1LE and Mustang GT PP2 are at the very top of the list. I love the C7 Vette and a Grand Sport would be the perfect car for me. But, it would no feel like I got a new car, and it is just too easy to drive at the limits. I think a PP2 or 1LE would feel like something new and be slightly more challenging to drive.

So, I love to hear the opinions of those that have tried one or the other or are thinking about the two. They are both great cars.

The Mustang PP2 would be perfect for me if it had a track cooling package and the same wheels front/rear, for easy rotation and carrying an exact spare (since tires are the same size. making the wheels different is disappointing).

Baron95 said:

I'd encourage you to drive a car with a good eLSD on track to verify your opinion.

As an HPDE instructor, I get to drive a lot of cars on track. My track car was a Mustang GT, then I switched to a Corvette C7-Z51 with eLSD, and it was almost like cheating. The eLSD opens (turn in) and locks (accelerate out) exactly as needed. It is incredible really. I think Chevy got their calibration on eLSD exactly right, better than any others, and miles ahead of any mechanical LSD (Torsen or otherwise).

I think this discussion is awesome, since I just sold my Corvette and I am now trying to decide what my fun and track day car will be. The 1LE and Mustang GT PP2 are at the very top of the list. I love the C7 Vette and a Grand Sport would be the perfect car for me. But, it would no feel like I got a new car, and it is just too easy to drive at the limits. I think a PP2 or 1LE would feel like something new and be slightly more challenging to drive.

So, I love to hear the opinions of those that have tried one or the other or are thinking about the two. They are both great cars.

The Mustang PP2 would be perfect for me if it had a track cooling package and the same wheels front/rear, for easy rotation and carrying an exact spare (since tires are the same size. making the wheels different is disappointing).

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I spent several days with the C7 Z51 at the Ron Fellows School, but ended up buying a GT350 due to the engine.

The C7 (and by extension, the Camaro) does have lots of great features. Love the PDR and the optional rev matching (I would use it as a backup - do my own heel-toe, but if I got it wrong the car would help me get it right). The ediff and the torsen in the GT350 feel pretty similar to me. The mechanical one is faster to react, and also opens on turn-in (when not under power) and locks immediately when exiting. I do think the C7 may have been slightly better balanced overall, but the GT350 does very well when you use weight transfer in your favor and the engine is miles ahead of the LT1 on track. I also like the Coyote better than the LT1 because I prefer the higher revving power it provides. It just feels sportier.

I prefer the Mustang over the GM cars (although I am really looking forward to the mid-engine Vette), and I LOVE the Viper. In general you really can't go wrong with any of them IMO. Sit in them all and see which one puts the biggest smile on your face. See which one makes you look back at it as you are walking away. That's the one you should get. There will always be something coming that will be a little faster, corner a little harder, etc. So you need to buy for the subjective things that won't change.

These cars are as good or better than anything similar from Germany, at least in terms of driving fun (refinement may be somewhat lacking). It's pretty impressive IMO.

That said, I do wish the PP2 at least had a transmission cooler. I believe that was the one on the GT350 tech pack cars that was overheating first. Some people added an air scoop (maybe from Ford Performance) that helped, but that is probably the only real weakness of the PP2 package.

-T

My biggest gripe about the 1LE is the exterior "upgrades" that come with the package. It just doesn't look "clean".

I came from a camaro and closely considered a 6th gen. For what it's worth, I found the mustang to just be a better, more enjoyable DD with the Performance Pack. I still love Camaros, but I don't think the performance of the 1LE make up for the lack of looks it has after the kit and additions.

TomcatDriver said:

Have to see it in person to see what the wheel gaps look like. The biggest drawback in my book is the splitter on a splitter.

Why??

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Because this is Murica and more is better. More splitters, more wings, more BBQ...

wjones14 said:

.....then in Dec 2004 I ordered an '05 GT 5-speed. Kept the '05 for 10 years as a daily driver, and took it to HPDE track days once a year every year. .......I test drove a 2015 Mustang GT with the Performance Pack and was underwhelmed. The exhaust was too quiet, and the car didn't seem all that much different than my '05.

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If you really thought a 2015GTPP car wasn't too different than your 2005GT, I have to question your objectivity. It's night & day between those two cars, they're not even close to one another.......and I've owned a 2005GT and a 2016GT PP car.

Cgocifer said:

So, you can't live without navigation (that's what cell phones are for, plus you get on star navigation even on a 1SS 1LE), blind spot monitoring (use the mirrors and be aware of your surroundings), Bose (who cares? the exhaust note is music to me), park sensors (meh, again, be aware of your car's corners). You get more on the 1SS 1LE than you do on a "base" 1SS. You get alcantara on the flat bottom steering wheel, shift knob, Recaros, and rear seats in addition to leather surrounding the alcantara which you don't get on a regular 1SS. Power seats are also fully adjustable on both the driver and passenger sides. You also get HUD, 4 drive modes, independent settings for the exhaust, steering, eLSD, and magnetic ride suspension. I thought Chevy had the worst interior quality wise of the big three, but man was I wong. It's a gorgeous interior and the materials have a high quality feel including the stitched dash insert.

As you know, in addition to the above, you get eLSD, 3.73s, additional coolers (trans, dif, oil...), forged 20s, unique spoiler and splitter, active exhaust, braces, unique spring rates and lowered height, functional hood vents, 6 piston brembos front, 4 piston rear, etc, etc, etc...

I know it is different for every person, but for me the visibility isn't that big of a deal. Took me all of 10 minutes to get used to it.

It is a phenomenal car at a phenomenal price. I just bought a brand new 1SS 1LE for $41,500 out the door. At first I wanted the Mustang, but once the PP2 was released, it was no match for the 1LE package. My wife on the other hand just ordered a PP1 GT which is why I'm still on this forum. I'm not a brand guy, I like all performance cars.

They got the stance and wheel offsets correct also. :clap2:

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Don't forget to post pictures when it comes time to clean the valves from all the carbon build up. Also, don't forget to document the HP, Torque and MPG #s as they drop between now and the time you decide to clean all the gunk.

Carbon Cleaning Dyno Results

:cheers:

Cgocifer said:

So, you can't live without navigation (that's what cell phones are for, plus you get on star navigation even on a 1SS 1LE), blind spot monitoring (use the mirrors and be aware of your surroundings), Bose (who cares? the exhaust note is music to me), park sensors (meh, again, be aware of your car's corners). You get more on the 1SS 1LE than you do on a "base" 1SS. You get alcantara on the flat bottom steering wheel, shift knob, Recaros, and rear seats in addition to leather surrounding the alcantara which you don't get on a regular 1SS. Power seats are also fully adjustable on both the driver and passenger sides. You also get HUD, 4 drive modes, independent settings for the exhaust, steering, eLSD, and magnetic ride suspension. I thought Chevy had the worst interior quality wise of the big three, but man was I wong. It's a gorgeous interior and the materials have a high quality feel including the stitched dash insert.

As you know, in addition to the above, you get eLSD, 3.73s, additional coolers (trans, dif, oil...), forged 20s, unique spoiler and splitter, active exhaust, braces, unique spring rates and lowered height, functional hood vents, 6 piston brembos front, 4 piston rear, etc, etc, etc...

I know it is different for every person, but for me the visibility isn't that big of a deal. Took me all of 10 minutes to get used to it.

It is a phenomenal car at a phenomenal price. I just bought a brand new 1SS 1LE for $41,500 out the door. At first I wanted the Mustang, but once the PP2 was released, it was no match for the 1LE package. My wife on the other hand just ordered a PP1 GT which is why I'm still on this forum. I'm not a brand guy, I like all performance cars.

They got the stance and wheel offsets correct also. :clap2:

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Cardude99 said:

Dude I get u love ur 1le, don't blame u, awesome car. But come on for the last several days nearly every thread u spam it with photos of ur car. We now know what it looks like and time to stop posting photos. Just make a sig and we can still see it that way. U think people would want me to constantly post photos of my HC on every thread I respond to? I think not. We r all car guys here but enough of the photo spam.

Side note I'm stoked about the PP2 also. Kind of the s550 version of a boss just likely less rare. Curious as others r regarding the coolers. Hoping that it's not a deal breaker. I'm sure for avid racers it is but I am more of a once every month or two kind of racer. Not looking to push it to 10/10 but maybe 8/10. Can't wait for the magazine rests. Wonder why they r taking so long.?

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Wow, you aren't kidding. I just went to his recent posts and this guy has the biggest hard on for his Camaro, the same pics are EVERYWHERE!!! Quite annoying actually.

I just bought an MR2 for a track toy, you should TOTALLY get one of those. Toyota got the engine placement perfect so why would you want a Mustang?!?! I have pics if you want to see!

1mic said:

Wow, the wheels on the PP2 look like HREs. The wheels on the 1LE is 1ugLE! Sorry

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They also look like RTR Tech 5 wheels with an incredible liquid metal finish instead of the lame plastidip RTR finish. Offer an better finish RTR!!! I'll buy!:frusty:

Cgocifer said:

Don't know how the performance will shake out, but I do know that the PP2 doesn't come with extra coolers, HUD, eLSD, or unique appearance items except for the tiny spoler and front splitter. Wheel arch gaps are still huge.

Come on, the visibility isn't that bad. That's what the throttle and mirrors are for. My first car was a 1965 Chevelle that had a rear view mirror and one driver side mirror. That's it. No blind spot monitors, no rear camera, no parking sensors, and large C-pillar. I owned that car for 26 years. I guess I can drive anything especially with, WOW, two side mirrors, a rear view mirror, and a camera! I also used to drive a Crossfire SRT6. Way worse visibility than the Camaro. Ever driven a Lotus or a Lambo? I guess those guys also just change lanes while praying to the all mighty.

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Lack of visibility is expected from cars like those because it is implied that you would not daily drive an exotic or even drive it long distances. The Camaro on the other hand can be used to commute so there is no excuse for poor visibility.

Rocketman said:

Lack of visibility is expected from cars like those because it is implied that you would not daily drive an exotic or even drive it long distances. The Camaro on the other hand can be used to commute so there is no excuse for poor visibility.

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They excuse is they were too lazy to make a new car so they just shrunk the existing Camaro lol. Don't get me wrong performs well but looks 90% identical to the prior Camaro in looks. Okay now back to topic.

jstump2490 said:

Wow, you aren't kidding. I just went to his recent posts and this guy has the biggest hard on for his Camaro, the same pics are EVERYWHERE!!! Quite annoying actually.

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He just bought the car a week ago. PP2 vs 1LE is a legitimate discussion to have in a Mustang forum. He's a 1LE owner, thus can give an opinion on this discussion. Perhaps it should go in the "Ford Mustang Versus?" sub-forum, if anything.

Anyways, relax a bit and enjoy some 1LE videos:
[ame="[MEDIA=youtube]7zi6HZ_1FaQ[/MEDIA]"]

[ame="[MEDIA=youtube]AhtqEckOEFk[/MEDIA]"]

while not what you want to hear probably, you should see if someone on the forum to you locally has springs and aftermarket shocks on their mustang and would let you go for a spin. I had a 2015 mustang GT Premium PP (PP1 in 18 terms) with steeda shocks and springs, with a CAI and tune and it was incredible while still being comfortable. I was hit by someone texting and driving about a month or so ago and test drove an m240i and my mustang absolutely destroyed it in every aspect. it was flatter in the turns, the brakes are in a different league, and the power was noticeably MUCH less in the m240i. The interior was nice but i didn't think it was much nicer than my mustang. I was really disappointed in the car honestly. I went back to a 17 with the same options my 15 had, as I couldn't fit comfortably in a camaro with a sunroof, as my head was almost touching the ceiling. You might not have to go all the way to a PP2 to get what you want.