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l'Ingegnere
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Zeke.Malvo
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LOL
I'll take SAE's scientific method of certifying and rating an engine vs random internet dyno runs. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe power drivetrain losses may not necessarily be straight percentages? There are just too many variables to list.
Marino
Well-Known Member
That's just one of many articles about the Hellcat being underrated. Many say by as much as 50 horsepower.
This article compares the dyno runs of a ZL1 to the Hellcat where the ZL1 actually reads a little low on this dyno and the Hellcat reads high. Either Dodge has the most efficient production car automatic transmission or the car makes more power than advertised.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.moto...r-srt-hellcat-camaro-zl1-hit-the-rollers/amp/
The point I'm getting at is it is still posssible to manipulate horsepower numbers even on SAE rated cars.
UAmach1
Bullitt Hopefull
The ZF is a really damn good auto, so I wouldn't be amazed if it's in the 12-13% powerloss range.
If Dodge is doing what I THINK Ford is then the engine is really ~714HP. They removed 1% and advertise the LEAST you could get(707), and that puts the 722HP inside the 1% upper variance range.
No idea on the Camaro though.
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TomcatDriver
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This makes no sense. SAE certification is a methodology, they don't test every engine coming off the line, so if there is engine to engine variation that would not be captured.
Mike K.
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Do you guys remember the 98-01 f body Camaros and trans ams ? The were rated at 300 hp and put down 300 to the wheels. When did the SAE stuff start happening?
bluebeastsrt
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How big of a variance do you believe there is in production engines? A blue printed motor might make 20 more hp more then its off the shelf brother. I'm curious to how often you think perfectly matched engine parts find their way into the same engine on a random production line?
TomcatDriver
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My point is everyone waves their arms saying "SAE +/- 1%" and I ask, +/- 1% of what? Every engine coming off the production line is not tested, and I think it is highly likely that simple manufacturing tolerances result in greater than a 1 percent variation. I looked at the SAE standard that wasn't behind a paywall (just the abstract) and it talked about methodology, not sample size, so I don't know what people mean when they say +/- 1%. If I were a manufacture I would test a sample and I would underrate to ensure I never let an engine out of the factory that made LESS than rated power.
Given the variation in panel gaps, I have a hard time believing that every engine coming out of the factory is making within 2%.
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bluebeastsrt
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The problem with dynos. Is they are machines just like the engines we are discussing. There is natural variances between dynos. They have to be calibrated from time to time. They need maintenance from time to time. And some dyno owners are not as on top of the maintenance and calibrations as others. And so you get dyno reading that are higher or lower from shop to shop.
bluebeastsrt
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I guess anything is possible. And without testing every engine. There will always be speculation. But my speculation is all the motors Ford is producing is in the 455-465HP range. Or +-one%.
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bluebeastsrt
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I really doubt that they are going to say anything other than we're all idiots. Even if we had Ford engineers over here.
UAmach1
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It's 1% of the goal power for that engine. They test random engines off the line, and they all have to make X power +/- 1%. Advertising the number at the bottom of that 1% variance IS under rating as you can make almost 2% more if you get lucky.
Will there be a few that go over or under the 1%? Sure. The point though is to minimize that.
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