2018 Performance Pack - A big step BACKWARDS

[saf1]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=physics

I'm all in for physics...and bricks are not supposed to fly but try telling that to McDonnell Douglas back in the day with regards to the F-4 Phantom.

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[scrubber3]

I'm all in for physics...and bricks are not supposed to fly but try telling that to McDonnell Douglas back in the day with regards to the F-4 Phantom.

It had thrust and was surprisingly linear.

 

[BmacIL]

Maybe this will help (it's from a real automotive engineer with decades of job experience)




Norm

That seems low. The last time I reviewed tire data (2008 so it's a little fuzzy) there was bigger change than that, and that does not take into account load, to which different tires respond quite differently, even for the same load. I'm not telling you anything you don't know, though, Norm. I'll look up some of the stuff I have at home.

The same spec tire from different manufacturers and of similar compounds can be quite different for load and camber sensitivity. Either way, something with 255/275 section widths is not going to match or beat something with a comparably sticky compound on 285/305, both with similar mass and power. The same goes for the GT350 on 295/305 width. The other aspect not in the GT PP's favor is that, as stated before, the 1LE has adjustable camber plates, along with adjustable rear bar, which means it can actually maximize its tires as-built from the factory.

 

[TomcatDriver]

I'm all in for physics...and bricks are not supposed to fly but try telling that to McDonnell Douglas back in the day with regards to the F-4 Phantom.

McDonnell F-4. The F-4 could fly just fine. Turning, well it had some issues with that.

 

[saf1]

McDonnell F-4. The F-4 could fly just fine. Turning, well it had some issues with that.

Yes, there is that issue with turning.

And to Scrubber3's point, yes. It also had a lot of thrust behind it.

I guess my sort of not so revenant point is that we will just have to wait and see how the cars actually compare if they are ever tested on the same track, same day, by same driver. Price aside of course which I believe is most of the complaint.

 

[c-rizzle]

The GT350 has higher net torque in the RPM range you'd be in on the track (above 4000 rpm at all times).

With the same tires it'd be much closer, but it doesn't, so that's not a valid comparison. I can throw 18x11s with slicks on my car and go much faster than a GT350. Same with the brakes. Stock for stock, the '18 GT PP will not be faster than a GT350 around the track, which means it will not be up there with a SS 1LE.

This is not '18 GT PP bashing, it's keeping people realistic.

Maybe. We don't know what the new dual injection's dyno sheet / torque curve looks like. It's already 20 more lbs than the 17GT (420 vs 400). And ONLY 9 lbs different at max torque from a GT350 now. (18 GT = 420 lbs vs. GT350 = 429 lbs)

With the way the previous GT's could make a lot of torque down low, I can only imagine how the 18 will pull down low.

After having driven my (stock) 17 GT back to back with a 2017 GT350, and the 2 cars feeling very similar under acceleration. In fact, my GT felt faster under 4,000 rpms, and the GT350 didn't really feel faster until almost 5,000 rpms.

I believe an 18 GT will pull harder at all but the absolute highest RPMs, but that advantage will be mitigated b/c the 10 speed can keep the GT near that 460hp max, better than the manually shifted GT350 with fewer gears that will drop off from peak hp on shifts.

 

[Hack]

Maybe. We don't know what the new dual injection's dyno sheet / torque curve looks like. It's already 20 more lbs than the 17GT (420 vs 400). And ONLY 9 lbs different at max torque from a GT350 now. (18 GT = 420 lbs vs. GT350 = 429 lbs)

He was talking about NET torque (essentially torque available at the wheels).

The new 10 speed automatic car is likely to have really good net torque at most speeds, but who wants to take an automatic to the road course? :shrug:

 

[Kevin08]

If this thread is going to continue to trend, can someone PLEASE fix the typo in the thread title. Driving me nuts.

 

[TomcatDriver]

Well, back on topic. My hope (I guess) is that Ford is practicing a little price discrimination with the PerfPack, and maybe with the entire product line. High prices in the fall for those willing to pay it followed by steadily increasing incentives for those not willing. They get their cake and eat it too selling low numbers of high margin cars and then following up with high volumes of low margin cars. It's a dangerous game to play as some customers who are scared off by the sticker are not going to come back later. I'm in no hurry, I can wait until June 2018.

 

[Madlock]

Well, back on topic. My hope (I guess) is that Ford is practicing a little price discrimination with the PerfPack, and maybe with the entire product line. High prices in the fall for those willing to pay it followed by steadily increasing incentives for those not willing. They get their cake and eat it too selling low numbers of high margin cars and then following up with high volumes of low margin cars. It's a dangerous game to play as some customers who are scared off by the sticker are not going to come back later. I'm in no hurry, I can wait until June 2018.

In an already-contracting market space and sea change of consumer preference away from passenger cars in favor of trucks and utilities, Ford is doing precisely the right things by moving aggressively to manage existing stocks, enhancing the value proposition of EcoBoosts to keep future commodity unit sales profitable while ensuring every future GT sale will maximize profit potential.

The substantial GT price increase for 2018 also reduces the extent to which Ford must pay consumers to take remaining 2017 GTs off dealers' hands. No contracting market scenario is ideal but Ford is approaching it very judiciously while substantially improving 2018 Mustang across the board (save GT350 which only received worse and more limited color combinations).

 

[Norm Peterson]

That seems low. The last time I reviewed tire data (2008 so it's a little fuzzy) there was bigger change than that, and that does not take into account load, to which different tires respond quite differently, even for the same load. I'm not telling you anything you don't know, though, Norm. I'll look up some of the stuff I have at home.

That OE-level engineer did feel that 0.15 was too low of an exponent, though he didn't go so far as to suggest anything higher. It'd take ^0.235 to get a 10% increase in grip.


Norm

 

[saf1]

It'd take ^0.235 to get a 10% increase in grip.


Norm

Because math is fun ;)

 

[Erock503]

In an already-contracting market space and sea change of consumer preference away from passenger cars in favor of trucks and utilities, Ford is doing precisely the right things by moving aggressively to manage existing stocks, enhancing the value proposition of EcoBoosts to keep future commodity unit sales profitable while ensuring every future GT sale will maximize profit potential.

The substantial GT price increase for 2018 also reduces the extent to which Ford must pay consumers to take remaining 2017 GTs off dealers' hands. No contracting market scenario is ideal but Ford is approaching it very judiciously while substantially improving 2018 Mustang across the board (save GT350 which only received worse and more limited color combinations).

I always wonder how much big companies like Ford and GM actually care what a dealer sells a car for. If it's on a dealer's lot, havent they already made their money?

 

[BmacIL]

Because math is fun ;)

I own this book, and have used it practically as well as for education alone. It's very dry reading and a lot of what's there is based on a so-called "bicycle model", but the physics is good.

 

[BmacIL]

I always wonder how much big companies like Ford and GM actually care what a dealer sells a car for. If it's on a dealer's lot, havent they already made their money?

Yes they do care. Avg. transaction price is a big thing in the industry and is an indicator of brand value, particularly when comparing cars in the same segment.

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