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To the "Purists"

Deroxas2.0

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Mark Phelan: 'Vette, Mustang, Cherokee fans, stop complaining already





As new versions of the Chevrolet Corvette, Ford Mustang and Jeep Cherokee draw near, I’ve got a request for the vehicles’ purists: Stop complaining that they’re different from the old cars you revere. Close your eyes, count to 10 and get back to me after they’ve been on the road for six months. Your whining makes my head hurt, and it’s not helping the cars you claim to love. Honestly.

“If you’re passionate about a car, you tend to see anything that’s different as a retrograde step,” said Jim Hall, managing director of 2953 Analytics. “Owners of the previous model will always prefer the one they know.”
That explains why many ’Vette fans recoiled in horror when they saw the 2014 Corvette Stingray has — wait for it — square taillights! Never mind that the new ’Vette is faster, more fuel-efficient and more advanced — their Corvette has round taillights, the way God intended. Anything else is an abomination.

The same goes for the 2014 Jeep Cherokee. The mechanical specs suggest it could drive up the side of a building, using about half as much fuel as the old one and keeping its passengers safe when it fell off the other side of the building. All some fans can see is that it’s sleek while the old one was boxy, though. They think that makes it a traitor to the brand.

I have no idea what the all-new 2015 Mustang will look like, but I am certain lots of people will despise it. The fact that it’ll probably be lighter, nimbler and more technically sophisticated and fuel-efficient than any Mustang before it is irrelevant. It’ll be different. That guarantees some folks will hate it.


People can’t tell you they want something they’ve never seen before. It’s a truism designers bemoan as they drink alone, late at night in fabulous bars decorated in white leather, chrome and black wood. But nobody knew the world wanted 250 different paintings of water lilies until Claude Monet did it and changed art forever. That’s why artists drink alone, late at night, in far cheaper and less fashionable dives.

Cars, like art, must evolve or die. The alternative is the Model T. The world’s best-selling car, Ford barely changed it from 1908 to 1927. Other vehicles evolved and surpassed it. Ford lost the No. 1 spot and never regained it.

Porsche is the other side of that coin, Edmunds senior analyst Michelle Krebs said. “The purists loudly objected to the idea of Porsche building an SUV and a sedan, but Porsche wouldn’t be around today if it hadn’t built the Cayenne,” the SUV that’s its top seller, she said. The combination of the Cayenne and Panamera sedan — another departure that was anathema to brand purists — led Porsche to record sales.

The idea that people can’t ask for what they can’t imagine collides with the salesman’s maxim of “Give the customer what he wants” at the intersection of art and commerce.

“The most important thing is to create a car that people see and immediately recognize as the new Corvette or Mustang or Jeep,” Hall said.
That requires an understanding of the vehicle’s core appeal and identity. Too often, the self-appointed guardians of brand heritage obsess over minutiae like round versus square taillights.

I’m looking at you, Corvette purists.

It’s the automotive equivalent of medieval theological debates about how many angels could fit on the head of a pin. The correct answer, then and now, is: Drop dead, I have a life.

The new models may be great. They may stink. We’ll know soon enough. I’ll guarantee one thing, though. The deciding factor won’t be the shape of a taillight lens.

http://www.freep.com/article/2013082...Phelan-purists

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I love Phelan, telling it like it is. The message of this article is exactly what is needed right now.

I'd like to change one thing in his article.....

"The new models may be great. They may stink. We’ll know soon enough. I’ll guarantee one thing, though. The deciding factor won’t be the shape of a GRILLE." :thumbsup:
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shelby1k

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Good article. It still won't stop all the bitching and moaning tho :)

As for the Vette, I actually think the square tail lights are an improvement on the new Stingray but then I'm not a vette purist or even really a fan. Can't argue the performance tho.
 
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Mriley

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History tends to look at it differently after some time has passed. The SVO is such an example. Most people I know agree the SVO was a great car but purists cried foul and said a 4 cylinder would be the death of the Mustang.

If purists always got their way we would have no variety.... something that, above all other things is what I love most about Mustangs.
 

Mike

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I love new Vette, and I love that GM had balls to try new things!! It also makes me wonder what new Camaro is gonna bring!
 
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Vickstang

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Nice article. I love anything that calls out all the online trolls and hysterical whiners. Way too much of that on the internet when it comes to new model cars.

I have no idea what the all-new 2015 Mustang will look like, but I am certain lots of people will despise it. The fact that it’ll probably be lighter, nimbler and more technically sophisticated and fuel-efficient than any Mustang before it is irrelevant. It’ll be different. That guarantees some folks will hate it.

People can’t tell you they want something they’ve never seen before. It’s a truism designers bemoan as they drink alone, late at night in fabulous bars decorated in white leather, chrome and black wood. But nobody knew the world wanted 250 different paintings of water lilies until Claude Monet did it and changed art forever. That’s why artists drink alone, late at night, in far cheaper and less fashionable dives.


My favorite part. And so true. He should have added that just because it's a new model Mustang will guarantee that some current owners hate it, out of insecurity, jealousy, etc. Thankfully the members here mostly seem objective and level headed when evaluating the s550.
 

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stangray11

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Not to offend any s197 owners, I know most of you guys are, but those of us that skipped a generation or two tend have cooler heads about this.

A lot of so-called purists I see online are relatively new mustang owners (last 8-9 years) that have convinced themselves that only the 1st and 5th generations matter when the combined sales of the 2nd through 4th eclipse it by a large margin and got the nameplate through the toughest times in the industry. You know, the same one that killed off the F-body and other competitors.
 

ChuckC

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Not to offend any s197 owners, I know most of you guys are, but those of us that skipped a generation or two tend have cooler heads about this.

A lot of so-called purists I see online are relatively new mustang owners (last 8-9 years) that have convinced themselves that only the 1st and 5th generations matter when the combined sales of the 2nd through 4th eclipse it by a large margin and got the nameplate through the toughest times in the industry. You know, the same one that killed off the F-body and other competitors.
Not to offend, but the S550 appears to be an evolution of generation 5 and generation 1 (with a dimensional hint of SN195 ).
 
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Melino

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My favorite part. And so true. He should have added that just because it's a new model Mustang will guarantee that some current owners hate it, out of insecurity, jealousy, etc. Thankfully the members here mostly seem objective and level headed when evaluating the s550.
Agree. It's been a good place to hide out from the mass hysteria and some of the ridiculousness I have read.

I, for one, can't wait until people start taking deliveries so we can start talking about all the things we love about it and stop bashing the Mustang/Ford and other fellow fans for something we haven't even seen in its entirety yet.
 

crysalis_01

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Not to offend, but the S550 appears to be an evolution of generation 5 and generation 1 (with a dimensional hint of SN195 ).
Firstly is's SN95. And yes you are correct. S550 can trace itself to S197, however it is just that, traces. There were so many modifications that the platform required differentiation. Just as the SN95's Fox-4 shared a floor pan with the previous Fox platform, and S197 shared just a few bits from DEW98.

Secondly I don't believe he was stating anything to the contrary about it being evolved from S197, only that those who just got into the "Mustang World" (if you will) care only for their generation and feel compelled to care about the classic 1st generation.

But with all things we must never underplay the past. Never forger or gloss over SN95, Fox, or...yes...even Mustang II's, Pinto origins. They are what got us here.

S550 will be a great car. But just like the past platforms it will take its place as a stepping stone to the future, just as all previous iterations have done before it. Buy the car, enjoy the car. Feel free to look to the future, but don't forget where you are now, and how you got there.
 

ChuckC

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Firstly is's SN95. And yes you are correct. S550 can trace itself to S197, however it is just that, traces. There were so many modifications that the platform required differentiation. Just as the SN95's Fox-4 shared a floor pan with the previous Fox platform, and S197 shared just a few bits from DEW98.

Secondly I don't believe he was stating anything to the contrary about it being evolved from S197, only that those who just got into the "Mustang World" (if you will) care only for their generation and feel compelled to care about the classic 1st generation.

But with all things we must never underplay the past. Never forger or gloss over SN95, Fox, or...yes...even Mustang II's, Pinto origins. They are what got us here.

S550 will be a great car. But just like the past platforms it will take its place as a stepping stone to the future, just as all previous iterations have done before it. Buy the car, enjoy the car. Feel free to look to the future, but don't forget where you are now, and how you got there.
Of course the platform is heavily modified. But styling wise (so far) I see much more than a "trace" of similarity to the S197. The look to me says an evolved S197.

As far as Mustang owners caring about their own generation, I see that in all Mustang generation owners on this board. For example I can easily tell who owns an SN95 and who owns an S197 by looking at their posts.

About the S550 hopefully this will be the generation that finally units all owners of all generations.
 

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stangray11

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Chuck, you've missed my point and yes, as crysalis said, I never disagreed that what we have seen so far it looks more like an evolved S197.

There are obvious biases based on who owns which year Mustang, but if you read the forums and the complaints, it is undeniable that a lot of the people complaining are S197 owners. This is for a few reasons (based on my speculation admittedly).

Firstly, a lot of S197 owners think that a Mustang is not a Mustang unless it looks like either the 65-73 or the 2005-2014 (with some who will go so far as to say 13-14 only). If you hang out on the Fox or SN95 sections you don't get a lot of that. This is because long ago many of our owners accepted that the Mustang can and should change and it doesn't have to look like a modern cookie cutter version of the original to be as much a true Mustang as any other.

Secondly, IMO a lot of S197 owners are young and don't have a good grasp of the history of Mustangs. I'm not blaming them for this but it's just reality. This is where a lot of the melodramatic BS is coming from about the death of the Mustang and that Mustangs have never looked like any other cars in history. Guys who have seen a few generations and the same reactions to each tend to mellow out after a while.

My message was simply that and not trying to start a war of rhetoric between Fox, SN95 or S197 owners. Personally I can appreciate them all.
 

likeaboss

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You all might want to remember that the 05 Mustang brought life back into a car that was dying. Nothing wrong with wanting a Mustang to have certain styling cues. With that said I'm interested to see the whole car in final form and then I'll make a decision as to whether I like it or not.
 
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stangray11

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That's what you got out of my post? I never said there was anything wrong with having certain styling cues. I said some people don't have any respect for anything but their own-generation Mustangs and yes a lot of those are S197 owners. I hope you are not unintentionally proving my point.

Please don't talk about a car that is "dying." You don't want to go comparing sales numbers per generation. Not only is it an apples to oranges comparison but the competitive landscape doesn't favor what you are trying to prove. The SN95 sold 130K in its final year of the platform and never fell below 113K for any given year. Dying is not the word I would use for that. The S197 was not created to "save" the Mustang. It was 10 years and ready for a platform change just like it is now. And dying is a word that seems more appropriate for a car that reached as low as 66K in 2009 and isn't all that much better off right now.
 

ChuckC

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Chuck, you've missed my point and yes, as crysalis said, I never disagreed that what we have seen so far it looks more like an evolved S197.

There are obvious biases based on who owns which year Mustang, but if you read the forums and the complaints, it is undeniable that a lot of the people complaining are S197 owners. This is for a few reasons (based on my speculation admittedly).

Firstly, a lot of S197 owners think that a Mustang is not a Mustang unless it looks like either the 65-73 or the 2005-2014 (with some who will go so far as to say 13-14 only). If you hang out on the Fox or SN95 sections you don't get a lot of that. This is because long ago many of our owners accepted that the Mustang can and should change and it doesn't have to look like a modern cookie cutter version of the original to be as much a true Mustang as any other.

Secondly, IMO a lot of S197 owners are young and don't have a good grasp of the history of Mustangs. I'm not blaming them for this but it's just reality. This is where a lot of the melodramatic BS is coming from about the death of the Mustang and that Mustangs have never looked like any other cars in history. Guys who have seen a few generations and the same reactions to each tend to mellow out after a while.

My message was simply that and not trying to start a war of rhetoric between Fox, SN95 or S197 owners. Personally I can appreciate them all.
It's interesting that you say that a lot of S197 owners are young. I've heard people mostly say that S197 owners were mostly in their fifties and that we need to appeal to the young generation.

It's been my POV that early S197 buyers were older and that they stopped buying S197s around 2010. And that younger buyers have only started purchasing S197s with the increase in HP.

Anyway my first Mustang was a '67 FB. I then skipped a few generations. I liked the SN95s but not enough to buy one. Now I have a '12 and so far I like what I've seen from the recent front end reveal of the S550.

As far as S197 owners wanting to see the S550 look a certain way, I have no problem with that. Not a dimes worth of difference between that and SN95 owners and Fox owners wanting to see it NOT look a certain way...like a S197.
 

likeaboss

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That's what you got out of my post? I never said there was anything wrong with having certain styling cues. I said some people don't have any respect for anything but their own-generation Mustangs and yes a lot of those are S197 owners. I hope you are not unintentionally proving my point.

Please don't talk about a car that is "dying." You don't want to go comparing sales numbers per generation. Not only is it an apples to oranges comparison but the competitive landscape doesn't favor what you are trying to prove. The SN95 sold 130K in its final year of the platform and never fell below 113K for any given year. Dying is not the word I would use for that. The S197 was not created to "save" the Mustang. It was 10 years and ready for a platform change just like it is now. And dying is a word that seems more appropriate for a car that reached as low as 66K in 2009 and isn't all that much better off right now.
Two things about 2009. It was a short model year and we were in the beginning of a deep recession. Two door sports cars weren't high on anyone's list then. I grew up with the Fox and SN95 Mustangs but my heart was always with the styling of the classics. I still like the Stangs I grew up with though.
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